[GUIDE] Melee Kassadin - AKA Inyourfaceagainadin, AKA Hashashadin

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Harborym

Junior Member

08-03-2010

Hey Ebonclaw,

Any chance we could get a video of this setup in action? Please?


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Ebonclaw

Senior Member

08-04-2010

Ahhh, I wasn't hitting the forums much for a bit, and didn't see this thread getting bumped, though I suppose I should have guessed, what with the highly relevant changes. :P

Let me first say - it took me a little while to actually warm up to the changes. I HAVE been playing Kass a bit lately, and I've been owning it up most the time when I do, so this guide needs a thorough rewrite because tactics have changed significantly.

Here's the deal, basically Nether Blade has vastly altered its usefulness for a melee oriented build. I won't get into the Armor Pen active, it's cool and all, but the mechanics of the mana gain have turned totally head over heals. Basically, at level 8 I'll have rank 2 Nether Blade, which now provides a very respectable stream of mana from just beating on minions. However, this is balanced by an -extremely- reduced mana gain from hitting champions. Look at rank 5 Nether Blade, it restores 60 mana per hit on an enemy champion, but that is only on par with the old Nether Blade, hitting tanks or other champs that have -0- additional mana. As a mage killer par excellence, you would preferentially be attacking targets who had at least some increased mana, and in some cases you might be stealing 100-150 mana per strike. This allowed you to play very fast and loose with your Riftwalk stacks, something that you have to watch much more now.

Also, there are many new(ish) melee champs who can pose a great problem, and you rarely get the chance to just run someone down and beat on them til dead. Champs like Garen, Mord, Xin, etc will punish you mercilessly in melee range, forcing you to be even more agile than before, and to always rely more on your spell damage than previously. In fact, the paradigm shift has been so large, that I've been having trouble fitting lifesteal into my builds, which ironically would of course give more staying power in melee, but the cost is becoming harder to justify for Kass, as the game evolves.

Anyway, I want to get a handful more good games under my belt, try some other variants of my build, and then I will totally rewrite this guide to be current with the state of Kassadin, and the state of the game at large.

Thanks for the continuing interest, you guys, makes me happy and insures that this major update is forthcoming! <3

(Oh and to answer your question, I've never run FRAPS or any other video capture software, but I have a very modern comp now, so I am seriously considering doing so! Maybe I will do a champion spotlight for melee Kassadin. :P)


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Pipin

Senior Member

08-04-2010

What am i reading here? AP kass a bad farmer? What kind of drugs are you guys on? You can decimate a whole creepwave in 1 skill, i bet that is faster than hitting every single creep at least once (if not several times). And i dunno i tried AD builds but hitting my target with kass is just kinda meh. I perfer to R (500 dmg or more if stacked) + Q + E and if the target is still alive you just R again for another 600 dmg now ou can also add in lichbane hits.

I just find a AP kass harder to counter as a AD one. But all in all a nice guide.


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kijik

Senior Member

08-04-2010

PEW, finally out of training, and trying to warm up again, Dear Lord am I rusty. Hai ebonclaw how is u? I just saw this guide and remembered the name and whatnot, I'm kinda excited to see your update on it, for now I'm sticking with my old ap build until I get back into the swing of things, but I'm kinda interested to see how AD would work out now especially with the armor pen active buff.

*lick*


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Mr Geppetto

Senior Member

08-04-2010

I believe the passive is called Null Stone.

Congrats on your new comp; I'm looking forward to seeing a video out of you.


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Ebonclaw

Senior Member

08-04-2010

It's Void Stone, actually! I was going to get around to fixing that, as well as the few typos and contextual errors, but man, I just love playing too much!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Pipin View Post
What am i reading here? AP kass a bad farmer? What kind of drugs are you guys on? You can decimate a whole creepwave in 1 skill
The drugs I am on, are the kind where especially with the old Nether Blade, it was hard to recharge your Pulse with any speed, without burning an asston of mana. Yeah, AP Kass can Rift over to a big minion mob and flatten most of it in one Pulse, then run around very vulnerable because that potent spell is unavailable for an unknown length of time.

A large amount of farming comes down to jungling, soloing dragon for the team, or stopping a minion wave where you can kill it without it hitting your tower, or without your own minions interfering. Since the old melee Kass build had lifesteal, it was utterly superior for all of these tasks.


@kijik Welcome back! I hope our recently changed Voidwalker feels comfortable for you. Once I get my updated guide up, maybe you'll try getting your hands a little dirtier, at least I hope you do. <3


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Mr Geppetto

Senior Member

08-04-2010

!@#$ I lost my god!@#$ post.

The short version is this. What happens when you get better? When heal/ignite are anticipated? When people actually buy wards? When they're almost never out of place? When even the guy solo pushing his lane has an escape plan?

Any fed solo rapes face, even Nunu (I **** you not)
But what happens when you have a game where you're not a fed solo?
What team utility do you offer?
Can you reliably dps without significant threat to yourself?
If you are behind in kills/towers against a team of decent players (i.e. ones who stick together) is there a chance in hell that you can spin it around?

Don't get me wrong, I like the idea of melee Kass. I always felt that ignoring 2/5 of his spells was a waste as well. But what Kass really needs at this point is not a different playstyle--it's a rework. But if you can somehow get around those issues and convince me of it, I will have endless kudos--even the chocolate bar kind, if you want.

EDIT: Bah, Null & Void, same thing. Even Kass says so!


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Ebonclaw

Senior Member

08-04-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Geppetto View Post
What happens when you get better? When heal/ignite are anticipated? When people actually buy wards? When they're almost never out of place? When even the guy solo pushing his lane has an escape plan?
Well, not to take too much precious time from the ACTUAL rewrite of the guide (as stated before, it's very dated, basically describing gameplay from before the ninjas, when there were only 3 champs in the entire game without mana, Trynd/Kat/Mundo, so you rarely even had to face 1 in any given match), I'll give you some quick answers.

First, I don't run Heal OR Ignite any more, though I am thinking about popping back to Ignite, I've just developed a style of play with most champs that involves facing physical carries head on by Exhausting them and bursting them down while they can do jack about it. But I was reading my own guide last night (bear in mind, I pretty much had put Kass down for 3-4 months), I remembered how nicely the Ignite tops off his burst, and of course helps put a nail in the coffin of a number of self heal-able champs. Heal helped me get many kills once upon a time, but as I stated in the guide, already at that time the spell had been nerfed pretty hard, and I was weary of it.

As far as Wards, they're an issue for any champion who is going to attempt ganks, I'm not sure how that applies to Kass specifically. In the early stretches of the game, Wards are somewhat few and far between - your team should alert you if someone drops one in the bush, but you'll probably not know if there's one on the river by dragon or Baron until you head for your gank. It sucks, yes, and it slows down your snowballing, but that's life. Gone are the days of the 18-3-12 wins, and they are largely replaced by 13-8-12 wins. I'll take it, it's consistent, and effective.

Once upon a time, when this build was allowing me to carry entire teams of poor players, it was in fact far easier to consistently catch people 1v1 and murder them without risk or remorse. However, in the intervening months, I have played a lot of Jax, and Kat, and Akali, and my skills at maneuvering a squishy champ around an entire team in order to surgically ruin their damage output, are quite satisfactory. I'll agree that the game has evolved, and that as my Elo has continued to rise, the players have evolved as well - while this has had sweeping ramifications for the use of a melee oriented solo mid Kass, he has seemed to remain quite viable, within the context of a build and playstyle that has significantly diverged from the guide as posted.

I've spent a stupid amount of time on this post, just to try to answer questions that will be answered in the rewrite of the guide, without actually sitting down and rewriting the guide right now. Let me go queue as Kass again, and get some more data, and I will get back to you in more depth. <3


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Mr Geppetto

Senior Member

08-04-2010

If it's being rewritten you should probably write that first thing at the top of your post. It could save everyone some trouble.

Lol, if you read forum and queue all day you're never gonna finish this thing. Just sayin'


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Mello

Recruiter

08-04-2010

Why not throw in lichbane instead of trinity, it deals physical damage (correct me if I'm wrong) and thats a nice 80 extra damage everytime you use an abilty. I know you lose out on the health and atk speed/move/crit of trinity, but you can easily make up that health with another item. just curious