Lee Sin: A Lengthly Criticism

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White River

Member

04-16-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Longfellow View Post
You guys are simply playing Lee Sin wrong because damage is not his problem, if he has one.

EDIT: and Lee Sin is not a tanky dps or tank or tanky character, he's a squishy assasin.
Yes, he's supposed to be an assassin, but he sucks at being an assassin. Unless you get fed to death, the only viable way to play him is as a tanky DPS. And even then he's average at best. That's the entire point of this thread; to make Lee Sin not suck as an assassin.

Compare Lee's burst damage to ANY OTHER ASSASSIN'S BURST DAMAGE. Hell, you don't even have to compare Lee's burst damage to other assassins. I'd go so far as to say that Lee is one of the weakest heroes in the game. Unless the hero you're comparing him to is a tank or support there's a good chance Lee will be outperformed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MattTheMachine View Post
hes a squishy assasin , but doesnt deal enough damage to kill any one with a full HP.

His passive is useless as he doesnt have any CC to keep anyone close to him.

Compared to other assasins like Xin Zhao and nocturne:

Nocturne has a AS steroid , a much better one and a fear to help keep enemies at bay to deal consistent damage.

Xin has a Slow with Audacious charge , and a knockup with TTS to keep them around.
I don't think it's fair to say that he doesn't have any CC. He does; his CC is in the form of Tempest, which slows attack and movement speed.

For better or worse, it's an AoE. Frankly, I'd prefer a single target ability that was a guaranteed slow or something, but in my opinion his slow isn't what makes him terrible, it's just another area where he falls short.


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Covenant

Senior Member

04-16-2011

My biggest issue with Lee is the cast delays.

Let's say I want to get to a target and kill them as they're trying to disengage. I'm not Xin so I can't charge, I'm not Yi or Jax either. I'm Lee. So I throw my kaoken at them--and for the sake of argument let's say I actually hit.

There's a pause for one second. The target is running--maybe ghosting. I hit Q, and zip in. I can use E nearly instantly. Hopefully they're within range and Lee hasn't gone from the kick to chasing a minion. There's now a second pause. Hopefully they haven't gotten away or flashed or I've gotten stunned during these 3-4 seconds of engagement. I hit E, and NOW they're slowed and NOW I can begin punching them in earnest.

Compared to anyone else, this is absurd. Xin's dash is instant, hits in an AoE, requires no skillshot or wait and slows right off the top while doing damage and leading into an attack. Yi's Alpha Strike is better and Jax's jump is better too--but just a little. For an Assassin, being able to close to a target is very important. For Lee, a skillshot fireball that requires a few seconds to pay off is not good enough.

And everything else he does is meh as well. He can't nova the way nukers can because he simply can't fire off all his stuff at once. His normal DPS is freakishly low for a DPS character, so he can't even autoattack guys to death. And his tanking skills are poor.


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Wyl

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Senior Member

04-16-2011

1. Doran's Shield or Blade
2. Boot of speed (better form is situationnal but you don't even need it for the speed)
3. Trinity Force
4. Warmog
5, Atma's impaler
6. Situational.

It is true indeed that his early game is really strong and his late game is meh. With this build you should be able to survive the late game, however, the scaling of his abilities won't make you much of a threat.


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Covenant

Senior Member

04-16-2011

Just gave Lee another run and, yeah, he's still so weak.

It's nigh impossible to get off more than one or two abilities on a target and only one of them is AoE on demand. The kick is fun and does some good damage up-front but that's something to rely on. Getting up to around 250 AD means your punches do a lot but with so many people packing spammable nuclear weapons, my autoaslaps don't really make me relevent.

It's very sad. I was going to be Mr. Lee Sin from here on out, maining him for Kung Fu awesomeness, and instead he's just limp. It's not like you can't kill people (he so totally can, especially with that kick hitting 2-3 people and you having lots of ArPen) but he's just dominating. He's like Olaf is now, after all his Nerfs, but at least Olaf has a reliable source of burst damage once he's in combat.


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Dark APB

Senior Member

04-16-2011

achem, i build him madreds lampthingy, warmogs, atmas, then that one item that increases healing and regeneration effects. he does just fine. he never dies, has 200+ dps, and regens hp natually like mundo, and has massive ls with his shield. no edit pls


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The Broken Hero

Member

04-16-2011

I think Lee Sin's passive should stack. That way when you do Sonic Wave/Res. Strike, you don't waste a charge of his passive.


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Real MONKEYKING

Member

04-16-2011

i find it interesting that everyone complains about his W ability with the AP when they could just get the Hextech Gunblade and be fine..seriously..i triple killed a team 3 times soloing with a AS/AD lifesteal build. It gives the AD and AP you need with Lifesteal and Spell Vamp..not to mention a magic Nuke active. UP? OP? there's always a way to play well regardless of circumstances


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Real MONKEYKING

Member

04-16-2011

lol did everyone stop posting because they are trying out the gunblade? :P


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Covenant

Senior Member

04-16-2011

Eh, the Gunblade is really expensive for what it provides Lee, even if it is a nice item on anyone hybrid. 3800ish gold for good--but hybrid--stats? You could spend the nearly exact same amount and get the Infinity Edge, or you could get a Bloodthirster.

Lifesteal is simply not valuable if you're being focused to death.


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Suzuteo

Senior Member

04-16-2011

Lee Sin scales like a beast. I think he's fine the way he is, though he definitely is a champion that demands timing.