Heimersayswhat?

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TheMountainGoat

Senior Member

02-25-2010

**** he's right, heimer's health does suck.

why the hell does it take so long to focus that little ******* down half the time then? really, usually when i play against a heimer, i end up chasing him for fifteen seconds before he finally drops.


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Donavan

Member

02-25-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMountainGoat View Post
**** he's right, heimer's health does suck.

why the hell does it take so long to focus that little ******* down half the time then? really, usually when i play against a heimer, i end up chasing him for fifteen seconds before he finally drops.
That would probably be because he went down reccomended..Soul shround = 520 health (correct me if i'm wrong) with legion (hp + armor/magic res), Frozen heart (99 armor wow) and a pendent that does 4 hp a sec. Yeah. Thats not a tankyish build at all.


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Detha

Senior Member

02-25-2010

Quote:
His passive doesn't even work on himself.
It does, you just can't see the buff.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Donavan View Post
That would probably be because he went down reccomended..Soul shround = 520 health (correct me if i'm wrong) with legion (hp + armor/magic res), Frozen heart (99 armor wow) and a pendent that does 4 hp a sec. Yeah. Thats not a tankyish build at all.
I really hope people don't really spec that way... I mean... wow...you'd have to be playing against a ******ed Heimerdinger, just taking tanking items on him is ******ed enough (except for a single Rod of Ages or Banshee's Veil, if you can call that a tank item), but taking both Frozen Heart and Soul Shroud on Heimerdinger is completely pointless.

True, Heimerdinger needs CD Reduction, but it's capped at 40%, and Soul Shroud (15%) + Frozen Heart (25%) + Upgrade (20%) would push him to 60%, which is beyond overkill. I'm guessing the people that take these items on Heimerdinger are the same people that level-up the turret skill beyond rank 1 before level 13, and build little fortresses of red turrets, and don't contribute to team fights at all.

Quote:
why the hell does it take so long to focus that little ******* down half the time then? really, usually when i play against a heimer, i end up chasing him for fifteen seconds before he finally drops.
His grenade blinds you for 3 seconds with a 8,4 second cooldown (if he has half-decent items), and if aimed properly it can stun you for 1,5 seconds. So that, combined with Exhaust or Flash, can give you quite some survivability in a 1v1 situation. Quite frankly, I'm surprised you lived 15 seconds against Heimerdinger, so you might just be playing a ****py Heimerdinger with tank items though.


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LoL is too buggy

Member

02-25-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Detha View Post
True, Heimerdinger needs CD Reduction, but it's capped at 40%, and Soul Shroud (15%) + Frozen Heart (25%) + Upgrade (20%) would push him to 60%, which is beyond overkill. I'm guessing the people that take these items on Heimerdinger are the same people that level-up the turret skill beyond rank 1 before level 13, and build little fortresses of red turrets, and don't contribute to team fights at all.
I usually max turrets ASAP and I'm 45-10 with Heimer. Am I a baddie?

Methinks you don't know Heimy so well.


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Detha

Senior Member

02-25-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by LoL is too buggy View Post
I usually max turrets ASAP and I'm 45-10 with Heimer. Am I a baddie?

Methinks you don't know Heimy so well.
Then you're playing Heimerdinger the lame, farming way, which will work.



When facing ******s, or double melee.

When you max out turrets first, you have no way to harrass except for a high mana cost rocket that deals less damage than a regular hit, and when you face any half-decent ranger or mage, they will simply kill your turrets before you can set up your "fortress of turrets" to farm, leaving you with tower hugging.

When you max rockets on the other hand, you will have a 200+ damage, 18~ second cooldown, guaranteed to hit nuke by level 5, that drains about 1/3 of the opponents health. As you might realise, the opponents will be towerhugging and going back to heal consistently, either way, they won't be last hitting anywhere except from next to their turret, and they certainly won't try to attack you when paired with a decent partner.

This will give you a massive advantage early game, as you can focus on last hitting as they will generally tower hug, and you will also out-level them as they have to go back to heal every minute or so (or die otherwise, you'd be surprised how many people go for this one and underestimate your rockets). Two upgraded turrets is enough to get all the last hits, you don't need 3-6 turrets for last hitting, only for "keeping them away", which you will with rockets as well.

Maxing out turrets is a stupid way to go, it will only assure lane-dominance against ******s or melee's without a way to kill your turrets safely. It's not *that big a deal* to max turrets first, but it's a lot better in every aspect to max out rockets first.

Methinks you play on low ELO


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HyBriDGoD

Senior Member

02-25-2010

heimer is no tank

heimer is no veigar or teemo either though. altho they have superior skills to adjust for their **** health

as far as skill paths? meh. depends upon what youre vs and if youre mid solo or top/bot.

as far as items? AP AP AP AP... worthless if youre stacking health...


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Turgid

Junior Member

02-25-2010

Heim + AP + Health = mean Heimma


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LoL is too buggy

Member

02-25-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Detha View Post
Then you're playing Heimerdinger the lame, farming way, which will work.



When facing ******s, or double melee.

When you max out turrets first, you have no way to harrass except for a high mana cost rocket that deals less damage than a regular hit, and when you face any half-decent ranger or mage, they will simply kill your turrets before you can set up your "fortress of turrets" to farm, leaving you with tower hugging.

When you max rockets on the other hand, you will have a 200+ damage, 18~ second cooldown, guaranteed to hit nuke by level 5, that drains about 1/3 of the opponents health. As you might realise, the opponents will be towerhugging and going back to heal consistently, either way, they won't be last hitting anywhere except from next to their turret, and they certainly won't try to attack you when paired with a decent partner.

This will give you a massive advantage early game, as you can focus on last hitting as they will generally tower hug, and you will also out-level them as they have to go back to heal every minute or so (or die otherwise, you'd be surprised how many people go for this one and underestimate your rockets). Two upgraded turrets is enough to get all the last hits, you don't need 3-6 turrets for last hitting, only for "keeping them away", which you will with rockets as well.

Maxing out turrets is a stupid way to go, it will only assure lane-dominance against ******s or melee's without a way to kill your turrets safely. It's not *that big a deal* to max turrets first, but it's a lot better in every aspect to max out rockets first.

Methinks you play on low ELO
Think what you want. If it works for you that's fine. I'll keep increasing my ratio from 45-10 with what I'm doing.

Notice I said "usually" and not "always". I usually don't have problems with ranged players in mid because I set up my 2 turrets before they get there. After that I play very offensively harassing with rockets on CD and even sacrificing some of my health to auto attack them to pressure them away from my turrets.

But hey, you're obviously awesome, amirite? What's your rec with Heimer by the way?

edit: as for "the lame, farming way" - that's what makes him the best champion in the game. If you aren't using the only advantages he has then you're playing as a mediocre caster. That makes you a mediocre player.

Also, "when facing *****s or double melee" doesn't apply to me because I always mid.


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Detha

Senior Member

02-25-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by LoL is too buggy View Post
Think what you want. If it works for you that's fine. I'll keep increasing my ratio from 45-10 with what I'm doing.

Notice I said "usually" and not "always". I usually don't have problems with ranged players in mid because I set up my 2 turrets before they get there. After that I play very offensively harassing with rockets on CD and even sacrificing some of my health to auto attack them to pressure them away from my turrets.
A decent Sivir or Zilean or Karthus or (list pretty much any other ranged champion) will take out your towers in no time. You can't harrass with a 60 damage rocket when Sivir throws out a 100+ damage boomerang with a lower cooldown (assuming you don't get hit twice), that can also be used to deal 50% of a turrets life in damage (if not more).

You can't swap your health to harrass them with auto attack when you have no abilities to harrass and they do, that's the point. Heimerdinger doesn't have amazing health regeneration or something compared to other champions, and if you are swapping health with champions and they harrass you with their abilities as well, they will win the harrassing game, and you will have to go back to heal, and they will destroy your turrets, and you will be forced to tower hug when you get back.

Quote:
But hey, you're obviously awesome, amirite? What's your rec with Heimer by the way?

edit: as for "the lame, farming way" - that's what makes him the best champion in the game. If you aren't using the only advantages he has then you're playing as a mediocre caster. That makes you a mediocre player.
You're constantly taking shots at me rather than providing valid points for why your way to play him is better, so you must be right? Right?

I don't get this entire paragraph, really. You're saying he's the best champion in the game because he can farm? Sivir outfarms Heimerdinger by far, and guess what? She actually pushes while farming, instead of remaining stationary, and she actually destroys a tower, which you won't when facing decent players if you're just going to hug your tower formation and won't harrass them.

Lets compare the advantages of your build and mine, assuming your midfield:
My Build
  • Huge harrassment forcing the other enemy carry to go back to heal several times, costing them gold and experience, making them weaker overal which helps in team fights
  • Gains good money from last hitting because of two upgraded turrets
  • Has a big nuke early in the game, so you can assist your friends in a gank
  • Because of the other midfielder going back constantly, the tower falls decently fast
  • When the team fights start at level 8-10 (later if you're in low ELO, though, so your build is slightly more viable there), immediately has a high damage AOE nuke to assist in team fights and help your team rack up kills

Your Build

  • Barely any harrassment, the enemy carry can constantly farm kills and experience and will not fall behind you
  • Earns even better money than my build (though you'd be surprised how little)
  • Cannot help with ganking and is attached to one spot, has no damage outside of that tower spot
  • Has no pushing factor, and the tower will not go down because the enemy carry will still be there killing your creeps, even though you kill theirs, and there is nothing you can do about it
  • When team fights start, only your turret skill has reached a decent level and you are pretty much useless outside from a blind from your grenade and low damage missile

You're always taking midfield, and start by leveling up your turret skill? This is ****. Midfield is a solo lane, meaning you gain a higher level overal. Usually, a carry goes midfield so he gains a level advantage on the people in the two dual lanes, which is of great importance in team fights, and you're going midfield to farm? So when team fights start, you have slightly better items than my build, but no skills to help your team at all, making the entire team fight pretty much a 5v4, while their carry is still good and strong? You're gimping your team like this. I'm guessing if you don't feel this way team fights start at a later period in your games (level 12-14? Then you're playing low ELO, sorry)

Quote:
If you aren't using the only advantages he has then you're playing as a mediocre caster. That makes you a mediocre player.
You are grossly underestimating Heimerdinger's farming potential with only two turrets up, and let me assure you, it's not far away from his farming potential with six turrets, you will only have to compensate by being a better last hitter as your turrets will not get them all automatically (rather only 2-3 of the 6, which is still a lot). The advantages gained by leveling your turret skill last to leveling it first are so great, it's foolish to level it first.

Besides, you (unfortunately) can't farm your way to victory and will have to participate in team fights, which Heimerdinger is decent at unless you level turrets first. What point is having 20~ more last hits at level 8 (400 gold? Wow) when you can't use the items bought from the gold to assist your team in team fights. You can't set up six turrets in the middle of a team fight, the only advantage gained from your high turret skill in team fights is the extra 20 or so damage on it, which is abysmal compared to the huge nuke increase from the rockets.

I used to play Heimerdinger using your build and leveling turrets first, but when I started facing better players and getting to a higher Elo I realised it wasn't viable, as you simply deal no damage in team fights and are useless outside of your turret formation. I'm assuming you've never played Heimerdinger using my build, and that's why you're thinking it's bad, but trust me, it isn't and you'll be a much bigger asset in your team when you level rockets first. Just give it a shot, and trust me, you'll do much better, even though the build requires a lot more skill than the "max out turrets first" build.


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Yana

Senior Member

02-26-2010

Hmm. Apologies for the misinformation, I just looked up his HP compared to the other heroes.

That said, he's got more HP than Twitch, Soraka, and Anivia, but yeah, he's probably 4th lowest.

I think the perception of him being tanky is because of his passive, which gives him a decent amount of regen. Plus a fair amount of heimdinger players tank up (which I personally think is bad).


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