Armor Pen or Magic Pen on Sivir

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Kalpho

Junior Member

02-24-2010

I know this may seem like a silly thread but I've been thinking about the viability of magic penetration with Sivir. All guides will say to stack damage and armor penetration runes but because of ricochet's mechanics, it seems like for total damage (as opposed to burst damage) magic penetration would be more useful. The first hit of ricochet is the only one that proc items, crits, and calculates armor penetration. All other hits are magic damage and are only dependant on base attack damage. I made a list of how much magic damage by percent each bounce would do:

1st - 78%
2nd - 60.84% (138.84% total)
3rd - 47.45% (186.29% total)
4th - 37.01% (223.30% total)
5th - 28.87% (252.17% toatl)

Even after 2 bounces, there is over 100% magic damage and even considering crits, the 4th bounce will give you over 200% magic damage. This seems like alot more viable in a 5v5 situation. Also, boomerang blade does magic damage which is your early game damage skill. Now, this does not mean that you should go AP sivir, but to go AD with magic penetration (which seems counterintuitive).


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dqq922

Junior Member

02-25-2010

What's the source of ricochet next hits doing magic damage? I think it's still better go to armor penetration because there's only one item which gives you flat armor penetration (brutalizer and it's very good for physical dd) and armor penetration runes give bigger amout of penetration than magic penetration runes. but you can go magic penetration via items. anyway need some test and thx for the info.


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Slide

Senior Member

02-25-2010

Ricochet does physical damage, not magic damage.

Attack speed runes give better bang for your buck in any case. There is a thread with the math in it, search for "attack speed VS armor penetration VS critical chance".


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Kalpho

Junior Member

02-25-2010

As per Veigar in https://www.leagueoflegends.com/boar...ad.php?t=45422 :

Magic penetration effects all bounces of ricochet since it is magic damage. The first hit is physical damage but all bounces are not. However, the damage is based on attack damage but is magic damage. It's similar to Parrrley before the change.


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Poki3 tem

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Emissary of the League

02-25-2010

Let's analyze this:

Armor Pen:
- More damage vs 1 or 2 champions.
- Better focus damage.
- Faster tower pushing.

Magic Pen:
- Better in team fights with 3 or more enemies.
- Better spread / AoE damage.
- Faster minion wave killing.
- More damage from Boomerang Blade.

Although more BB damage is incredibly tempting, I think Armor Pen would do better overall. I can push towers faster, get more damage when I'm exchanging blows on mid, and kill the focused target in team fights faster, rather then spreading the damage around. Feel free to try it though. You can always use the Magic Pen runes to make a caster Rune Page.


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Charmicarmicarmicat

Senior Member

02-26-2010

Armor pen does't work on towers.

Interesting theory I hadn't thought of. I think you should try it out and tell us how it went.


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Kalpho

Junior Member

02-26-2010

After playing around with this a little bit, it seems that magic penetration isn't really too viable item-wise. The money spent on either haunting vise or sorc boots could easily be spent on AD items that will boost both the first hit and the bounces. There is rare a time that you'd be hitting more than 2 champions at a time until 5v5 and by that time you can easily have BF swords or even better. Runes I'm still not sure on because I don't have any magic penetration runes. They might help especially in you're playing an aggressive early game with BB, but other than that it's a little too situational. Also, if you look at post-game stats, usually your magic damage is 1/4 to 1/3 of your physical damage (usually because of last hitting in early game, hitting towers, or neutral creeps). It's too hard to always have 4 or 5 creeps/champions to hit.


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Slide

Senior Member

02-26-2010

Not to mention, Ricochet is physical damage. Not magical.

http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board...ad.php?t=66080

And of course, as I mentioned, try out attack speed, youll be surprised.


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Talking Socks

Senior Member

02-26-2010

I tested this out because the endgame stat screen can be buggy sometimes. QUICKSLIDE is right. Ricochet is physical damage, and is affected by armor penetration.


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Kalpho

Junior Member

02-26-2010

I did too. I posted a thread in general to see if Veigar can give us an update