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Aggressive Alistar (Guide)

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NappehBoy

Junior Member

02-25-2010

Quote:
xrats:
You should always have flash with Alistar.Secondly,Alistar is a tank.His mission is to get in the enemy team stun,play all his skills and die after.Your team handles the rest.If you want to hunt and kill heroes or be in general aggresive then u pick wrong hero.


If you're playing as alistar, running in and dying and hoping your team cleans up, you're not doing it right. you need to use your ultimate to respond to high threat abilities and you should almost NEVER die. he would not have an ability that is specificially meant to maintain pushes nor a passive that makes him kill towers much faster if he was meant to simply run into team fights, stun, and die..


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xrats

Senior Member

02-25-2010

Of course you ll use your ulti in the fight.But a tanks goes in and fight first and its not afraid to die.You can survive but you dont care if you die also.If your allies win the fight your death will be worth the effort.


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anata ga mori

Recruiter

02-25-2010

Quote:
xrats:
Secondly,Alistar is a tank.His mission is to get in the enemy team stun,play all his skills and die after.Your team handles the rest.If you want to hunt and kill heroes or be in general aggresive then u pick wrong hero.


Disagree. Tanks HAVE to be aggressive or they won't be able to do their job as tanks. And they shouldn't expect to die every fight unless they're built as something other than tanks.

What is charging the enemy team head first if not aggressive?


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Dapacman

Senior Member

02-25-2010

Quote:
xrats:
You should always have flash with Alistar.Secondly,Alistar is a tank.His mission is to get in the enemy team stun,play all his skills and die after.Your team handles the rest.If you want to hunt and kill heroes or be in general aggresive then u pick wrong hero.


I should clarify. Playing Alistar "aggressively" does not necessarily mean you are going to straight-up attack everybody and win. There is a science to it that will always involve your teammates, especially when ganking. Alistar is at level 6 THE MOST effective tower-diving hero in the game, and a lot of kills can result from this early on.

Yes, it is Alistar's job as the tank to initiate fights and absorb stuns/nukes/etc. That does not necessarily mean you are going to die. The truth of Alistar is that, with his ultimate up, he can absorb almost any hero's skills and hardly have a scratch on him (if timed right).

The reason that I am so vehemently opposed to the (Flash > Ghost) argument is that once you flash in and stun and ult, flash is gone and you are much more likely to die and/or (if the fight lasts a bit longer) to let other champions escape your onslaught. With Ghost, you are still going to initiate (headbutt first and stun the rest) but you will be much quicker for the next 15-20 seconds (I forget how long Ghost officially lasts). With the cooldowns reduced, that's at LEAST one more easy catch with a stun and a headbutt back into your team's fray. More kills are had by your team, not necessarily by you.


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PoohBear26

Senior Member

02-25-2010

Why not take both?

Flash in, Stun, Headbutt, Ult (if needed) and Ghost out (or stay in and chase down softies, depending) is a combo I use all the time when the opposing team is pushing my tower or if I want to take out one of their champions before my team fully engages.

This basically allows your team to quickly drop one champion while you soak up their damage. It makes the team battle almost immediately a 4v5. And with their entire team now focused on me, my team's support characters are there to help keep me up while our carries are free to pew pew to their hearts content. This can turn the tide of an ENTIRE game whether I live or dont.

I'll easily give up my life it means taking out 3-4 of them.

EDIT: Also, if it's strictly a Flash vs Ghost debate, then it really comes down to preference and play style. Some choose to only get one because they enjoy having Teleport. Some Exhaust. Others, clarity. It really just depends. But if the entire discussion is based on which skill initiates better, then an array of other uses both skills have are being neglected. (Flashing through impassible terrian, Ghosting back to your lane, etc)

I can't stand at my tower, Ghost over to a champion whose pushing it and 1-2 combo him into my tower as easily as I can with Flash. At the same time, I cant flash in and 1-2 combo a champion back to my team AND escape in the process quite as easily as I can with Ghost.

Each are situational. Which is why I <3 having both!


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nicosharp

Senior Member

02-25-2010

just to add to the 'why flash?' discussion:
The biggest thing Flash does for Alistar is, it is instant, and can bypass most players reaction times, unless they premptively know its coming, then u waste flash and a pulv thinking you will hit them as you flash but they flash way or time a movement skill very well. The second best thing about flash is that you can counter flash with flash - Enemy is farming Dragon, as your team approaches to gank, they flash over the wall, you flash over, stun and knock them back down to your team.,,, etc. and other scenarios.

Ghost is awesome though, I also agree if I had to choose, Id probably take Ghost, but definitely for me its Flash + ghost.

Im not a huge fan of teleport, and one of the biggest reasons for that is that I always forget I brought it as a skill as I run back to lane :P.


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PoohBear26

Senior Member

02-25-2010

Quote:
nicosharp:
The second best thing about flash is that you can counter flash with flash - Enemy is farming Dragon, as your team approaches to gank, they flash over the wall, you flash over, stun and knock them back down to your team.,,, etc. and other scenarios.


Great example


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Dapacman

Senior Member

02-25-2010

Quote:
PoohBear26:
Why not take both?

Flash in, Stun, Headbutt, Ult (if needed) and Ghost out (or stay in and chase down softies, depending) is a combo I use all the time when the opposing team is pushing my tower or if I want to take out one of their champions before my team fully engages.

This basically allows your team to quickly drop one champion while you soak up their damage. It makes the team battle almost immediately a 4v5. And with their entire team now focused on me, my team's support characters are there to help keep me up while our carries are free to pew pew to their hearts content. This can turn the tide of an ENTIRE game whether I live or dont.

I'll easily give up my life it means taking out 3-4 of them.

EDIT: Also, if it's strictly a Flash vs Ghost debate, then it really comes down to preference and play style. Some choose to only get one because they enjoy having Teleport. Some Exhaust. Others, clarity. It really just depends. But if the entire discussion is based on which skill initiates better, then an array of other uses both skills have are being neglected. (Flashing through impassible terrian, Ghosting back to your lane, etc)

I can't stand at my tower, Ghost over to a champion whose pushing it and 1-2 combo him into my tower as easily as I can with Flash. At the same time, I cant flash in and 1-2 combo a champion back to my team AND escape in the process quite as easily as I can with Ghost.

Each are situational. Which is why I <3 having both!


To be fair, I mentioned both in the guide and in the argument at points that substituting Teleport for either Flash or Ghost (to have both) is perfectly viable.

I don't want specifically a Flash vs. Ghost debate, cuz that's a very easy-to-work-with option. I've even seen an Alistar that gets Ghost and Rally, runs right in and drops Rally so he can absorb even MORE damage. Summoner skills will always be a matter of preference, but for the specific build that my guide proposes, Ghostwalk is an absolute necessity.

Very nice reply though.


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Dapacman

Senior Member

02-25-2010

Quote:
nicosharp:
just to add to the 'why flash?' discussion:
The biggest thing Flash does for Alistar is, it is instant, and can bypass most players reaction times, unless they premptively know its coming, then u waste flash and a pulv thinking you will hit them as you flash but they flash way or time a movement skill very well. The second best thing about flash is that you can counter flash with flash - Enemy is farming Dragon, as your team approaches to gank, they flash over the wall, you flash over, stun and knock them back down to your team.,,, etc. and other scenarios.

Ghost is awesome though, I also agree if I had to choose, Id probably take Ghost, but definitely for me its Flash + ghost.

Im not a huge fan of teleport, and one of the biggest reasons for that is that I always forget I brought it as a skill as I run back to lane :P.


Flash vs. Flash is an excellent counterpoint.

However, being the aggressor, once they flash away, the odds are they are out of range for whatever your intentions were (whether is was headbutting into a tower or a crowd). You can CATCH them, but you can't initiate your initial plan.

Again, it all relates towards getting Flash instead of Teleport. As long as you have Ghostwalk, the plan will still work. In a 5v5 team game though (I guess I should have directed this more towards solo queue'rs), the Teleport is necessary because your teammates might not have them and SOMEBODY should always have it. At least one person. Preferably 2-3.

Thanks for the reply.


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PoohBear26

Senior Member

02-25-2010

Also, countering a flash with a flash of your own isolates you from your team, so even if you were to headbutt them back through "impassable" terrain, you're stranded! The bull without his herd is one dead cow

As for teleport, I totally agree. It's the one summoner ability that I constantly question getting with Ali, especially in solo queues. However, I play way too reckless (even more so when I'm baked ) so having another "get out of jail free" card like ghostwalk or flash is huge!

But yes, you did mention both in your write up, so my apology. I didnt intend to steer this topic in another direction. Choice of summoner abilities are totally a matter of preference and playstyle


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