What is Gragas' place? Build?

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Miirik

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Senior Member

02-24-2010

So I see that gragas has a place as some sort of crowd control tank thing going... but I'm not sure how to build him.

My closest Idea who he would be similar to is nunu, since they are both caster tanks? Or is nunu not a tank? O_o

I've been practicing many games with the big drunk guy but i'm not sure which direction to ever take him... somehow it doesn't seem like AP is the way to go, unless i'm just getting terrible items.

Anyone have advice on build and runes for this guy? I would usually go recommended items but I hit for **** regardless. Do you build him as a tank? A backline barrel rolling/throwing caster? Whats his jib?


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MyNeighbourTrololo

Member

02-24-2010

I play Gragas as supportive fire. Building him into ap(Lich bane included due his spammable spells). Lowering enemies hp with barrels before battle and finishing off running in/after battle, chasing them down, tactical cask to cut off enemy team for 2 and 3, cask to save ally from mob of enemies or pull escaping enemy back, etc.


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Miirik

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Senior Member

02-26-2010

Could he be built as an actual tank? HP or Armor or MR? Anything of that sort? All his recommended items are ap items and it says he's a tank but he's darn squishy for a tank if all he does is focus on ap. I can't believe how much I feed with him going AP.

something to go with his drunken rage I suppose


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DoomManufact

Senior Member

02-26-2010

I'm reposting this from the other thread:

Quote:
Originally Posted by FatPandaBear View Post
My question is: Why gragas when you have malphite?
Gragas's ult has a lot more utility than malph's. It can be used like Blitz's rocket grab, knocking back 1 (or more, if they're stupid enough to stand together) back towards your team. It's also VERY good to push their whole team away from yours when you're all running for your lives. It can even be used just to disorient their team when they try to team fight with you, and the atck spd debuff really will turn the battle in your favor, especially if you can stick one guy against a wall while blasting everyone else away.

Gragas's Drunken Rage gives a flat % reduction to incoming dmg (rank 5 gives something like 20% dmg reduction, and tied in w/ 21 defense points you can hit near 25% flat dmg reduction). It also works against tower hits, making him a decent tank. I'd still prefer an Amumu on my team to be the full tank (Amumu's ult is invaluable) while I more offtank, but Gragas can pass as a team's main tank pretty well.

As to my playstyle, I'm really surprised this hasn't been mentioned yet. AP Gragas SUCKS. VERY BADLY. If you think it's good, you haven't played anything past noob pubs. His Barrel Roll does not increase in damage well AT ALL, and while it does have a ~.9 AP ratio (ult has a 1:1 AP ratio), it's base dmg is absolutely terrible and unnoticeable.
His Body Slam, however, will net you so many kills it's not even funny. It does ridiculous damage early levels, and will continue to do a 5th of the whole enemy team's health late game, and at least a quarter of a single target's hp.

Here's my skill path:
1. Body Slam
2. Drunken Rage
3. Drunken Rage
4. Barrel Roll
5. Body Slam
6. Ult
From that point on I usually go with a preference of Ult > Drunken Rage > Body Slam > Barrel Roll. Pick up a point of barrel roll around lvl 3 or 4 just because you and another char like Nid or Heimer can harass your scared, bleeding lane opponents to hell w/ Spear/Rockets + Barrel Roll. Drunken Rage will keep you in lane for a WHILE, esp. in combination with your passive.

Here's my very tentative item build. I'm still working on it, but the general idea is to get AD, CD reduction, and as much max HP as you can get w/o sacrificing dmg.
Sword 1st + HP pots -> Brutalizer
Soul Shroud
Frozen Heart
Frozen Mallet
Boots of Swiftness
Perhaps an Innervating Locket, might wanna try a Sunfire Cape, maybe an RoA

Obviously these are out of order, and probably not the most ideal build. Tbh in all my games the farthest I got was to a Frozen Heart, getting Sword/Brutalizer first, then Soul Shroud, then Frozen Heart. I got an earlier Phage in one game, planning on building it into a Frozen Mallet, and it worked really well, since you usually get 1 hit in immediately after a body slam, and usually another soon after while they're slowed.
I heard good things about an Innervating Locket. I haven't tried it, so don't give me any grief about it, just know that it's an option to think about. You do end up running right along their whole team most teamfights w/ ur belly slam, so I would imagine a Sunfire Cape would be good on him. RoA just b/c Barrel Roll does have a good AP ratio, and Barrel Roll does get pretty useful later on in teamfights when they start running away.

TL;DR: Barrel Roll does not scale well at all in base dmg, AD Gragas is a million times better. Prioritize CD Reduction, AD, and max health. Body Slam your way to victory, and be drunk. All the time.


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TheMountainGoat

Senior Member

02-26-2010

i really don't agree with maxing barrel roll last every time. it's invaluable for farming creeps, and therefor it's great for pushing lanes. level 5 barrel and a blasting wand alone will nuke a minion wave in 1 hit.

i've found that i want body slam first if you have an aggressive laning partner, and barrel roll for a defensive partner. after that, i get drunken rage, followed by whatever skill you didn't get first. then i'll usually level drunken rage to level 3, add a point to one of the other skills (barrel roll if i'm creeping, body slam if i'm squabbling with the enemies). from there, it's situational, but i found that maxing drunken rage first is generally a good idea. if you're going to spend your time pushing lanes, you want barrel roll maxed next, but if you're finding yourself in a lot of fights (which you should be), you'll want body slam.

the item build is all about preference imo. i've been trying different things with him, and find that i prefer to go even with my AP and AD, with just a bit of survivability (i really like nashor tooth, rageblade, and spirit visage right now). the only thing i think is absolutely necessary on him is 30% cooldown to be in drunken rage at all times.

tl;dr
gragas can be played multiple ways. try different things and see what works best for you.


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Joru

Senior Member

02-26-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Miirik View Post
Could he be built as an actual tank? HP or Armor or MR? Anything of that sort? All his recommended items are ap items and it says he's a tank but he's darn squishy for a tank if all he does is focus on ap. I can't believe how much I feed with him going AP.

something to go with his drunken rage I suppose
If you build for nothing but defense/mitigation, you'll just be ignored and there's nothing you can do about it.

I don't play Gragas, but I always thought that the only role he's cut out for is magetank. He'd get a Rod of Ages and Rylai's for a ton of health, a defensive CDR item or two, and then extra AP with whatever gold you have left. Between your large health pool and the mitigation offered by Drunken Brawler, you'll be too tough to focus down effectively while still doing at least so-so AoE damage.


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Miirik

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Senior Member

02-26-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joru View Post
If you build for nothing but defense/mitigation, you'll just be ignored and there's nothing you can do about it.

I don't play Gragas, but I always thought that the only role he's cut out for is magetank. He'd get a Rod of Ages and Rylai's for a ton of health, a defensive CDR item or two, and then extra AP with whatever gold you have left. Between your large health pool and the mitigation offered by Drunken Brawler, you'll be too tough to focus down effectively while still doing at least so-so AoE damage.

I find him still focused on. And I find building him as an actual tank works out quite well O_o. I've been having success with it rather than going AP. Only thing thats kept me from winning games has been leavers 2 games in a row ><, then next game our other tank fed 0/7/0 that fed a ryze ._.

I can't wait for this week to be over, i'm so sick of seeing OP ryze every single game.


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ManOfTheRushHour

Senior Member

02-27-2010

I'm probably the only one who builds him AD and I'm ok with that because I've had great success with him so far..I get early game kills because the opponents don't know how much Attack Damage adds and it's always the first thing I max and of course then maxing Body Slam..Set ups are basically the same routine: Ult > Body Slam > Autoattacking or Flash > Body Slam > Autoattacking..due to high AD I don't have a problem farming and I usually get a starks in for the team or if there aren't that many physical dps I'll build bloodthirster...you can check my recent games if you want, but I'm still working on ideal items..

edit: as far as late game goes, I recently tried Guinsoo's Rageblade so at least I can get a little more damage out my worthless barrel rolls and ult.

If I wanted to play tank, the only one worth playing to me, is Alistar..and since he's my most played I needed a change..


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HarlockJC

Member

02-27-2010

I do
1. Barrel Roll
2. Drunken Rage
3. Body Slam
4. Drunken Rage
5. Body Slam
6. Ult

I get sapphire Crystal first round with two potions
second mana manipulator
then boots
then Innervating Locket
Flame armor or Boots of Swiftness
based on money
work towards Nashor's Tooth for even more cooldown


I get flash and teleport. Teleport is great when you see yourself losing a lane. You jump in and have cleared it with in seconds.

I get Barrel Roll Lvl 1 because it take down minnons quicker.