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Tanklesticks: Fears none, yet fears ALL

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Prisonal

Senior Member

02-24-2010

Quote:
C0heed:
Not a bad guide... but I really think it needs a rod of ages.

Most of your fights are going to be team fights and rod of ages gives you health, mana and AP... which is huge in fights. You can save the damage mitigation items for later, because damage mitigation isn't any good if your opponents have Magic resist and you don't have an AP / magic Pen...


Most of the builds use Abyssal Scepter. I am also prone to get Sorc shoes and haunting guise. I rarely grab an item if its only offensive bonus is AP. I go for straight spell pen on my mage fiddle build, and likewise, I use spell pen with tankle sticks.

Spell pen will give you more damage than ap will on fiddle, do the numbers if you want.


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SonicTheHedgedawg

Senior Member

02-24-2010

thumbs up for the clever title.


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Edyll

Senior Member

02-25-2010

I really like this guide, I often build similar variants, but I may try your exact build sometime and see how it works out for me.

I would like to offer a suggestion on a kick-major-ass fiddle build against a team with limited or no disables, but which fails in a more general situation.

The main idea, as in your build, is to max mitigation. Against a team with very few disables, you don't need a banshee's first and your drain is almost guaranteed to last as long as enemies are in range.

Drain -> DW -> Drain -> Fear -> Drain ...

Max drain ASAP. For items buy Doran's Ring or Shield then Chain Vests or Negatrons (or both) and upgrade as needed to max mitigation against whatever dps build you're facing. For boots go with Sorc Shoes (due to no disables) and maybe a void staff later. I also recommend a spirit visage if you have gold.

Starting at level one, if your partner is any kind of decent, run up to the enemy asap and if they don't run, start draining, your team will come out ahead. Get one level of DW for silence, then max drain/fear.

I guarantee you'll own any hero 1v1 and stand your own 2v1. Hell, with crowstorm and a little surprise I've gotten kills in a 3v1 situation. Again though, you will get demolished if you encounter an opponent with disable, so this is a build only usable once every few games.


tl;dr: Great guide, OP - I recommend it. If playing a team with no disable, max drain/fear and stack nothing but pure mitigation.


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TeeNaku

Senior Member

02-25-2010

although the kid is fairly good i will have to call out your ignorance on "bad ap scaling" all of his attacks hit multiple times. and if you do the math they actually have rather fantastic ap scaling because of it.


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ayanaftw

Recruiter

02-25-2010

Quote:
PrisonSex:


In a lane, ult from the bushes and DO NOT use flash to close the range because that lets the otehr champs simply flash out and you jsut wasted your ult. Ult behind the champs in yoru lane, blocking their exits. Fear anyone with escape mechanics, silence anyone with CC. If you are sure they aren't getting out of your ult, drain them to finish them off.





ult from bushes - good

but not using flash to close the gap is bad. if their not getting hit by ur ult its still being wasted

what u have to do is pick the target u really want dead. ult, flash, and fear that target if he has flash

drain is good but kinda situational. if i were mid against some aggressive dps i'd get drain.

if i were to jungle i'd get 2 lvls of drain then max out dw w/ some fear ofc

like what the other ppl said u cant take fiddle's AP scale at face value. i think drain ends up being +2.4 per ap if u got to channel the whole duration. and crowstorm is +2 per ap if they were in for 5 secs.


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Edyll

Senior Member

02-26-2010

Quote:
TeeNaku:
although the kid is fairly good i will have to call out your ignorance on "bad ap scaling" all of his attacks hit multiple times. and if you do the math they actually have rather fantastic ap scaling because of it.



AP Ratio's aren't at all about the actual ratio unless you're a burst-dps caster. More important is the AP ratio correlated with the base damage of the spells. Consider the amount of AP needed to double Fiddlestick's effective spell damage:

Level 5 Drain - 160 dps with a 0.4 ratio. Requires 160/0.4 = 400AP to double in damage
Level 5 Dark Wind - 100 dmg/hit with a 0.35 ratio. Requires only 286AP to double in damage.
Level 3 Crowstorm - 350dps with a 0.4 ratio. Requires 875AP to double in damage.

In my opinion which I'm sure many would share, Fiddlesticks has two main purposes.
1. Fear the enemy carry and silence the enemy casters
2. Deal damage and cause chaos with Crowstorm

Drain and Dark Wind do decent damage but their primary purposes are Healing and Silencing, so although DW has a good AP ratio and Drain has a decent (but not great) ratio, it is questionable whether this is the best value for your gold.

Fiddlestick's main damage spell has a absolutely terrible AP ratio. Spell penetration will help immensely, but AP will have only minor effects on crowstorm.

OP is correct in saying that Fiddlesticks has terrible AP ratios given the build he posted. The only time you'd want AP as a fiddlesticks is if you plan on using DW as your main source of damage and keeping your distance from fights in order to not die.


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Prisonal

Senior Member

03-09-2010

Quote:
Edyll:


Fiddlestick's main damage spell has a absolutely terrible AP ratio. Spell penetration will help immensely, but AP will have only minor effects on crowstorm.

OP is correct in saying that Fiddlesticks has terrible AP ratios given the build he posted. The only time you'd want AP as a fiddlesticks is if you plan on using DW as your main source of damage and keeping your distance from fights in order to not die.


This. As tanklesticks, almost all of your damage will come from your ult. This build scales best with Magic Pen. I've tried out ap/tank builds but you either end up sacrificing all of your survivability or you end up being a weaker version of both builds.

Yeah as AP fiddle, I go cooldowns and get Archangels, mejai's, etc, but the same items won't always work depending on what spells you focus on using. Dark wind is there purely for the silence. Drain will give you sustainability. Crowstorm will be your dmg.


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Riot aBhorsen

Recruiter

03-09-2010

+1 To playing Fiddle as a tank.

Your probably gonna flame me for this but until people try it they'll see it works.

Not in order:

Sorceror's Boots
Abyssal Sceptre
Haunting Guise
3 x Sunfire Cape

Aim for the last 2 sunfires last but that gives you a Tank Fiddle which rapes faces once his ulti is popped.


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Concretar

Senior Member

03-09-2010

Some games against some opponents, a fiddle player does go SDFKLJADB LKD JA I wish fiddle was a tank! When I mentioned this to my team though they got very angry, so I didn't have your guts to try it.

Nice nice! All fiddle builds are great at towerdiving though, and spirit visage on a fiddle kinda makes me cringe. Then again having a tank amount of health might be too much to fill with low-ap drain!

I don't think I'll try it because of my playstyle but it looks solid, gj.


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Burning Rose

Senior Member

03-09-2010

I've never played fiddles and only played with him on my team occasionally, so I can't really give much input on this idea as a whole, but I can say this:

Quote:
PrisonSex:

1. His ap ratios are ****ing terrible.


2.4 Total Ratio on Drain.
~3.7 Ratio on Dark Wind.
2.0 Ratio on Crowstorm.

Fiddles has the best **** Ratios in the game - the kind of ratios that need a hard nerf.

Even Tibbers + Incinerate + Disntegrate has a total ratio of 1.9, and deals a total base damage of 1050 (and Disintegrate is only single-target). Crowstorm at level 16 has a base damage of 1900 or so, and a total AP ratio of 2.0. Not to mention it has a larger range than Tibbers or Incinerate, and is only one spell. If you count in the damage from Dark Wind and then Drain, it's just insane.

Saying fiddles has bad AP ratios is like saying Alistar needs more HP gain.


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