RE: Queue-dodging penalties

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BearwithChainsaw

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Senior Member

02-23-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pendragon View Post
That's your right, and it's your choice. You'll just have to wait longer between games as a result. Honestly... I don't queue dodge (except for the 1/1000 instance where a friend logs on when I'm at champion select) and I have a general good play experience (w/ ~500 games played between two accounts). I do play the same game you do, you know?

I don't don't dodge afks (because I rarely see them afk by the time they get into the game, they just play whatever random champion)
I don't dodge if the lineup is bad - I like to win against the odds (happens a lot)
I don't maintain a list of people I don't like (so obviously I don't dodge these people), although people are behaved when I'm on Pendragon more than on my smurf

I also get dodged all the time for asking for solo mid (I'm also fine not soloing if someone else wants it, but I prefer it). I'm actually a pretty good solo mid shaco too
I used to enjoy playing Mundo, but stopped because people dodged (and I actually did pretty well with him)
I used to play Evelynn as my main, but got sick of people dodging (even though I'd often completely destroy)

With 500+ games played, queue dodging is my single biggest point of annoyance right now. That's from my perspective as an actual player, not a "dev".

Queue dodging is annoying, but why have you neglected to fix the root cause players dodge,(which is mainly an MM issue, and how champ select kicks everyone out for one player) and/or create a different method of queueing that doesnt punish players for a lobby (Champion select IS a lobby.) There shouldn't be a punishment for queue dodging because of the various reasons (you may not mind AFKers in champ select, but I sure do, and I bet the vast majority mind as well.)

Implementing a punishment for queue dodging is not the way to go about this. Queue dodgers suck(but terrible games due to terrible choices made by players are FAR worse), but if there was a combination of fixes for how MM matches people, and how Champion select actually works, that would be better for the community as a whole.
(IE: the various suggestions players have made to Champ. select, like.. when the dodgers leaves, dont kick everyone out, replace the player... )

Once this is implemented, get ready for QQ threads galore!


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objectivesea

Senior Member

02-23-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pendragon View Post
With 500+ games played, queue dodging is my single biggest point of annoyance right now. That's from my perspective as an actual player, not a "dev".
queue dodging is annoying. I agree 100%. But the 1-5min I have to wait to get another game is far less annoying than being a game that will last a min 25min of my team getting shat stomped because someone AFK'd during their queue or champion select. 25 min wait < 1-5 min wait.

I'm not saying remove the queue dodging penalty, I'm assuming it will be changed with legitimate feedback as the next couple of weeks go on, but a more disturbing and much larger problem is AFKers... Please fix this, and a good chunk of dodging should be cut right out. Because frankly, I don't care if someone wants to random, but random selecting without picking summoner spells and a relevant rune page is absurd and is worthy of a dodge without penalty.


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Siky

Senior Member

02-23-2010

I thought about an idea where everyone just has a simple Ready button. A prime issue I've had outside of constant queue-dodging is people who AFK after queuing. This is ultimately really frustrating and is the only time where I deem it proper to queue-dodge because obviously you're choosing not to play in a game where someone either chose to for whatever reason play champion blind pick mode or just decided to queue up and for some stupid reason, forgot to come back. This doesn't change the fact that queue-dodgers could simply just wait the minute and a half and not hit Ready, but I don't know how many people would be upset at this idea. People who don't click Ready should be booted off of auto-re-queue which is mainly just a correction for AFK queues.

Right now, there is no real way to correct queue dodging except to revamp Matchmaking. This is an issue that the community has sort of gotten used to where really what can you do about it?

I thought actually securing information at key points in time as reference for matchmaking would be better. We have established that many games have a proper early game, mid game and end game. Collecting your score information at 10 minutes, 20 minutes and 40 minutes gives you a better understanding of what a player is capable of with Kills and Assists being equal in value and Deaths also being a factor. If you're playing a tank and you're goood, you should be getting assists. If you're always dying first and getting the least assists in the game, you're bad. It's not always black and white like that, but it's a start.

Matching together people based on their scores is a very rudimentary way of doing things, but if you take an average of your last 10 games and use that as a basis for matching people up, if you're having a really bad stint of games it'll reflect that and you'll obviously be matched with lower less skilled ELO players, but on both sides.

It would increase queue times obviously, but that might be a better preference for waiting 2 minutes for a game to start instead of waiting 10 minutes because you got queue dodged 8 times in a row. I strongly believe that matching purely by ELO in a game like this isn't the right way to go, but I still enjoy the game when I am lucky enough to be matched with people who I play well with win or lose.

Right now it just feels like when I'm on a winning streak, I'll eventually hit a roadblock where it feels like matchmaking is intentionally matching me with people to make me lose. I don't really want to play a game where even if I'm playing with level 30s, I'm doing well and I'm only matched up with other level 30s who are on like a 10 game losing streak. How is that fun for me? What if I was in a match with 9 other people who were on a 10 game winning streak with scores similar to mine averaging most of those games? I don't mind waiting a few minutes to start a match instead of wasting 10 minutes being queue-dodged because of 1 or multiple people and then find out that I just wasted 40+ minutes of my life because the people in the game either give up after dying a couple times in a row or because we lose all of our front towers first and they feel like they haven't farmed enough yet, but then we have people who believe they can still win the game with 1 or more people just feeding their brains out because they only know how to blame the team for their misfortunes.

This isn't perfect, but I think it's a start if someone were to take a look at the pros and cons of changing the way the current matchmaking system is.


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Jayce from Space

Senior Member

02-23-2010

So, pendragon (wonder why they call you that, phallic reference here) for someone who doesn't think my comments deserve a response, you sure make a habit of quoting them and GIVING a response.

And how is not an issue of knowing how? Clearly, if you did, you would have done it, because it is, logically, a far better way of going about things than penalizing people for not wanting to waste their time.

For those who have a life (like moi) and for those who have friends whom also have lives (moi) teaming up whenever possible isn't a viable option. I am (as are most) forced to solo queue due to unavailability of partners or even the desire to not play with those people from time to time. You're forcing us to choose how we want to play. Where is the logic in that?

Just give your programmers a few jabs to the face and get them on top of figuring out how to keep 9 players in a game after someone leaves and searching the queue for another person. Then, everything will be just fine.


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Pendragon

Director of Player Experience

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02-23-2010
6 of 13 Riot Posts

Quote:
Again, your report system is terrible, and in order to accurately report you need to printscreen during the game and upload a photo and email Riot on your own time rather than play the game, and I'd certainly rather queue dodge idiots than have them waste even more of my time because you can't implement a "report player" button.
Requiring a little bit of effort means we also take reports more seriously, because we get less harassment spam.


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noobfluff

Senior Member

02-23-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pendragon View Post
Honestly... the number of times revive/clarity mundo actually happens is so miniscule the argument is more or less invalid, but I felt the need to attack it anyway .
I played with this Mundo on the opposing team. I felt sure that he was trying to force a Qdodge.

What we REALLY need is to implement some way to make people who do things like pick Mundo with Clarity or Katarina with Clarity, or any other such unfavorable combination feel really, REALLY, stupid.

Like, there should be a confirmation window when you try to select the summoner spell after selecting the champ informing them of how bad they are, and how much their team is going to hate them. They should have to click the YES button multiple times. Only, instead of "yes" and "no" the options should be "no" and "throw myself down a well" or something to that effect.

Sound effects would be cool, too, like the Price-is-Right "you just lost" noise.


...an alternative solution would be to allow people to queue as the character that they want to play as and let MM assemble the team based on attributes. I'm sure there's a million reasons why that wouldn't really work, though..


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Cryaotic

Recruiter

02-23-2010

Honestly all this crying about queue dodge penalty is ridiculous. Play with the team/heroes ur given or dont play at all. Its that simple. May be if u loosened your trypants a little and tried to just play the game and have some fun instead of focusing every bit of your stamina on the winning mindset, we would all have a much better experience. Sure its nice to win but the world is not gonna end because u receive an Evelyn or a Warwick or w.e the hell u queue dodge for.

If you want to go for a win, then go assemble a premade, where u wont have to worry about the things that bug you.
Otherwise SHUT THE HELL UP.


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objectivesea

Senior Member

02-23-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pendragon View Post
If someone is griefing, report them to support@riotgames.com
Is there a print screen folder, or do I have to paste every single screen shot individually right after I take before taking another? I don't have a problem doing this on my own time if I am able to take more than one picture at a time


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Jayce from Space

Senior Member

02-23-2010

And oh yes, reporting to your oh-so-express support service will save us hours of time. Hah, ridiculous.


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Milskidasith

Senior Member

02-23-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pendragon View Post
Requiring a little bit of effort means we also take reports more seriously, because we get less harassment spam.
You also get less legitimate reports of people who are making a community the worse place. 80% of my ignore list probably wound up saying something that was a bannable offense, but again, the chances of me being matched with them are so slim it's not worth the few minutes it would take to shoot you an email, whereas a report button is a lot simpler.

Honestly, how long does it take to read through an ingame chatlog? If it's such a big deal, just add a filter that searches for obviously bad terms so you don't have to waste manpower on chatlogs that say "intentional feeder" and are full of no chat at all except a couple MIA calls and a few GGs.

EDIT:

I'd also like to know your response to my response to your question: Demigod legitimately meets all of your criteria. Wonder if I still have the disc, since I switched laptops; I heard they added a few new demigods, though they were always very slow with patching (unlike you guys).


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