RE: Queue-dodging penalties

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Jayce from Space

Senior Member

02-23-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Solution Nine View Post
Sure it is. There are other games that use a match making system that don't penalize players for leaving after they have been selected and put in to the lobby.

Why not just change MM to keep the 9 players and pick a new one from the queue to replace the dodger? Why kick all 9 people and restart the queue for them? That would be a much better solution than this ridiculous penalty system.

Hell even just limit the penalty to 3 minutes every time. A 3m, 8m system with an 8 hour reset is pretty insane.
The answer is simple: they don't know how.


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Vienna

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Senior Member

02-23-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rumination View Post
you might want to focus on removing the occurrences of said circumstances.
Ah, of course, the obvious problem to a queue is the lack of skills in some players, therefore Riot should remove the players that are of lesser skill than you.

Gentlemen, a holocaust is in order.

but srusly, queue dodging is the epitome of terrible sportsmanship. People fail to think beyond the situation as it pertains to them; according to the statistical law of large numbers, you are not alone in getting these people in your queues. To use a somewhat obscure colloquialism, in the wash it all works out equally in that people should be matched up with AND against the people that they complain ruin their queues.

A kind of fun perspective game to play: pretend that you get queued into games that are far above your level, and they queue dodge you for the same reasons you're queue dodging other people that, relatively speaking, are representative of you in terms of comparative skill level.

Reflective statement goes here.


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Drunner611

Senior Member

02-23-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pendragon View Post

I don't don't dodge afks (because I rarely see them afk by the time they get into the game, they just play whatever random champion)

I don't know how you do it. 4v5 is the worst gamemode LoL has, and I shouldn't be penalized for avoiding it.

Solution: If you dodge, the other 9 people remain in queue while a replacement fills their spot. Simple, everyone's happy, queue is never delayed by more than 10 seconds. In essence, you have the practice game lobby, but you can still only see your team.

Feedback?


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PrawnWonton

Senior Member

02-23-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pendragon View Post
  • When you join a matchmaking queue, it should be expected that you're not able to choose your teammates.
  • If you want to choose your teammates, make a premade.
  • There are public chat rooms, forums, a ventrilo service, an IRC service, and lots of third party communities where you can find premade games
  • Choosing your teammates is essentially cheating the matchmaking system into giving you better odds.
  • Queue dodging puts a lot of extra load on servers (people matching many times for a single match)
  • Queue dodging inconveniences 9 other players

That being said, we're not removing queue dodging, we're simply making it a tougher decision. If you ACTUALLY see a Mundo with revive/clarity, dodge it, wait the 3 minutes, queue again.
Wow. You don't think every griefer and troll in the world will purposefully pick bad hero/spell combinations just to force penalties on to someone else?

People already do with without a penalty.

RIOT says: if you see a bad hero like that, DODGE it. Pendragon JUST TOLD US TO DODGE. He admitted there are legitimate reasons to dodge.

RIOT says: You should dodge bad combinations, but we are going to penalize you for doing so.

Makes perfect sense to me!


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Ponies Gonna Pwn

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Adjudicator

02-23-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rumination View Post
I don't usually make too many posts on these forums (or any forums in general really) but when I heard about this latest RIOT scheme, I felt the need to speak up. Yes there are threads on this all over, but I wanted to make my own so my opinion wouldn't just get drowned in a sea of intellectuals and idiots alike.

Frankly, the fact that you're even considering putting in penalties for queue-dodging makes me wonder about the general level of intelligence of your development team. Let me break this down for you RIOT: I can say with almost absolute certainty that the vast majority of people who play LoL have better things to do than to sit down and log on to their accounts for the sole purpose of joining a game and then clicking the "x" and thinking *Hur Hur, ah just dodged a Q Dur Hur Hur.*

People leave champion selects for a REASON, RIOT. They do not join games just to push 9 other people back into the queue system. There is not a grand plot of secret agents creating LoL accounts in order to leave champ-selects so they can prevent people from playing the game. Perhaps instead of punishing people for not wanting to play your game when they feel that one or more circumstances are not conducive to a good time, maybe...JUST MAYBE...you might want to focus on removing the occurrences of said circumstances. MAYBE, you might consider focusing your efforts on balancing out the weaker heroes in the game and bringing them up to par. But hey, that's just me I guess.

EDIT: spelling error
The game being less fun because of *******s ruining games in this manner means less money for Riot and less players. If you're seeing something that makes you want to dodge, you should consider that they're at the same rating as you are.


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SlyGoat

Member

02-23-2010

Aratrok, would you really rather play with the kind of d0uche that frequently queue dodges? Do you really want those people forced onto your team? You know the kind of **** they'll resort to to make your game unfun because you inconvenienced them by picking Janna, or by not taking Flash?


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Pendragon

Director of Player Experience

Follow RiotPendragon on Twitter

02-23-2010
4 of 13 Riot Posts

Quote:
The answer is simple: they don't know how.
It's not an issue of knowing how. Comments like yours really aren't deserving of response though.

Quote:
Ah, of course, the obvious problem to a queue is the lack of skills in some players, therefore Riot should remove the players that are of lesser skill than you.
Sure, and we have plans to add a lot of that stuff over time (like making your ignore list prevent you from getting matched on the same team with those players, and adding easier player reporting, but this is something that had to be done more immediately).

Quote:
Ass-backwards argument of the century right here. So basically you're saying we should play practice games if we don't want to waste time on terribles?
No, you should premake if you want to choose your teammates.

Quote:
Sure it is. There are other games that use a match making system that don't penalize players for leaving after they have been selected and put in to the lobby.
I'd be interested in seeing if there's an example of a game that meets these criteria
1. With a fully automated MM system that accepts mixed sizes (1-5+ players)
2. Sessions that last over 30 minutes on average

That
1. doesn't penalize players for leaving mid-match
2. Has a "set-up lobby where matched players choose options POST-matchmaking"
3. Players are happy with


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Pendragon

Director of Player Experience

Follow RiotPendragon on Twitter

02-23-2010
5 of 13 Riot Posts

Quote:
Wow. You don't think every griefer and troll in the world will purposefully pick bad hero/spell combinations just to force penalties on to someone else?
If someone is griefing, report them to support@riotgames.com

Quote:
RIOT says: if you see a bad hero like that, DODGE it. Pendragon JUST TOLD US TO DODGE. He admitted there are legitimate reasons to dodge.
Any reason that's legitimate to you is a legitimate reason, we added a penalty to have a tougher decision. You should dodge any time you prefer the dodge penalty to playing the game

Quote:
RIOT says: You should dodge bad combinations, but we are going to penalize you for doing so.
As I said - You should be able to dodge for whatever reason you want to dodge.


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The SHP

Senior Member

02-23-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pendragon View Post
Honestly... the number of times revive/clarity mundo actually happens is so miniscule the argument is more or less invalid, but I felt the need to attack it anyway .

It's very... "WELL WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN IF AN ASTEROID HITS THE EARTH" ?

Also, keep in mind that we do ban people for intentional feeding, harassment/afk stuff, and another abuses.


Champion selection is not the pre-game lobby.
Practice games have a pre-game lobby that you can leave at any time.
actually, i see mundo/trynd with clarity-revive a fair amount on my smurf, yesterday alone i saw it thrice, some punk decided that since the character he wanted was picked, he'd force a queue dodge by taking clarity-revive mundo. Considering i saw that kid three times in a row do the same thing all three times, if i were to dodge that like any reasonable person would, i'm the one getting punished for someone else being stubborn and foolish.

Along with that is the fact that afkers happen. A lot. I'd say the majority of the queue dodges i have done are because an ally is afk. And of course, since the addition of the requeue system, that afker gets put right back into queue to force another dodge. And now the afker isn't gonna get punished, his allies, who are just dodging to make sure they don't get in a 4v5 match with a random 5th who might show up, are getting punished instead.

Honestly, queue dodging was a little annoying, but it usually served a purpose. I don't agree with dodging when you know some of your opponents, but hopefully you'll have gotten rid of that by getting rid of the 'in champion select' status. But dodging because your allies decide to play terrible champs/terrible lineups, or because someone is afk is just people trying to have quality games. If i wanted to play low quality games and gamble on having teammates that'll actually be there and stay there, i'd go back to dota. But now if i try to give myself better quality games by dodging the bad situations that come up, i'm gonna be punished.

At the very least, if this is gonna be kept around, add a system in to auto-dodge the game if a summoner hasn't picked anything by the end of countdown, and give the dodge penalty to the person that didn't pick. That way, no one else gets punished for getting matched with an afk, and the afk gets the penalty and gets removed from queue, meaning they won't be automatically put back into queue to ruin any more queues


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Milskidasith

Senior Member

02-23-2010

Quote:
I'd be interested in seeing if there's an example of a game that meets these criteria
1. With a fully automated MM system that accepts mixed sizes (1-5+ players)
2. Sessions that last over 30 minutes on average

That
1. doesn't penalize players for leaving mid-match
2. Has a "set-up lobby where matched players choose options POST-matchmaking"
3. Players are happy with
Demigod.

EDIT:

Quote:
If someone is griefing, report them to support@riotgames.com
Again, your report system is terrible, and in order to accurately report you need to printscreen during the game and upload a photo and email Riot on your own time rather than play the game, and I'd certainly rather queue dodge idiots than have them waste even more of my time because you can't implement a "report player" button.


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