[Feedback] A closer look at Tryndamere

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Stope

Member

02-21-2010

Tryndamere is overall a weaker charactern. He is very weak early game, and even mid game he is subpar.

I have over 800 games played and a reasonable amount of wins over losses.

Tryndamere is also my most played hero, and unfortunately probably my weakest.

The reason I play him so much is because he is such an awesome design concept for a character. A barbarian, with a big sword who "intimidates" his opponents through mocking shouts, huge crits, and his ability to refuse damage. I hope that he can be changed to be more of a viable champion, as I would sincerely like for this character's concept to pan out into an effective rather than crippled champion.

Early Game:
Cons:
-Terrible at harass
-Bad 1v1 or 2v2 against other enemies with much more effective ability combos
-Not ranged, so harder to last hit, or gets over harasses and can't get close enough to last hit consistently
-Comboing abilities is ineffective comparatively to other champion's more effective combos. Even using your abilities costs you relatively large ammounts of your hp if you use them over and over again (they cost health to use)
-If against ranged, they just sit back and laugh while free farming.


Pros:
-
Extra escape/advance with spinning slash (although if used to dps, then its on cd).
-Ability to heal (again, if you are lucky enough to not be out harassed, which high elo doesn't happen unless your laning against someone weak or your partner is very strong

Mid Game:
Tryndamere begins to improve in correlation with his critical strike chances improving, but still is relatively weak. He still is weak at harassing if people are still laning, and by now people have their ults which do large ammounts of dmg/disable.

What does trynd have? Well his dps is still subpar, and he can refuse death for a small amount of time (in which your opponent will likely be running/evading/tower hugging or simply chasing you waiting for your ult to wear off.

Late Game:
Tryndamere finally is doing some relatively good dps, that is if and only if he has made it past the earlier game stages without getting overwhelmed by his weakness. Any champion at this point would have been atleast as strong as him if played to the same degree, if not stronger (because they could have picked up a kill/assist or two). Most teams just hope he hasn't died much at this point and that his lane hasn't lost a tower (basically that he hasn't allowed any of the oppositions team members to begin to snowball due to his weakness).

Problems with his ult (Undying Rage):
The problem with undying rage is that you don't need it as much if you are doing well, and if you are doing poorly it doesn't really help you kill them without a HUGE risk of dying afterward. This is unlike every other champions ult, where it gets better the better they are doing, and even if they are slightly down, they can hit all their abilities including their ults, and if that doesn't do it, they still have a chance to run (or the other person is already dead).

This ult is also VERY different from every other champions' ults, that become strong the better they are doing (even snowballing in some cases), and remain powerful even if they are slightly down.

Suggestions:
Rework his ult
Make him much more viable as a champion early game
Make him mildly stronger mid game
Make him slightly stronger late game (or allow him to get to this point without the other team free-farming/pushing lane and ganking/etc).

How:

-Lower the health costs on his abilities, especially at low ranks
-Increase the duration of his mocking shout moderatly or lower its cool down
-Lower the cool down on bloodlust

Another solution to bloodlust would be to make it trigger on every hit, but give less each for each hit. For example, instead of getting 8 charges max from crits/kills, you get 20 charges max from any hit, crit, or kill but for lesser amounts each charge.

This could be done maybe by giving him a like a % damage increase for using it. Then, it could be used in situations where your team is winning, even if you wouldn't have used it for the invulnerability aspect. Additionally, if you are doing poorly, it will give you a much needed dmg boost for the short time you have it on.

This would also still befit its description; right now its more of: Undying Will, giving it a dmg increase or even critical strike chance would put the "Rage" in Undyring Rage. I'm aware it gives you bloodlust stacks, but those are some times unneeded (and are especially trivial at early/mid game when your crit strike chance is low).

Maybe it could even make him resistant to debuffs while ulted.


Thank you for your time, and I appreciate any feedback.


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Craixis

Senior Member

02-21-2010

800 games and you're most played hero has had 100 games?
Jeez you must hero swap alot?
But yeah, he's not very Viable, I've been told an AP build is good, but I don't play him as often as I do other characters to try that out.
His ult does need to add something else though, I mean, Poppy becomes immune to most damage sources and gets an increased damage output on her target, tryn gets... 6 more seconds of life? CCed he's toast, and other characters can wreck him easily.
I'd like to see him get a buff, so I can actually use my Chronoshifts on him without fear of it being a waste (no offense to Tyrn players, but other characters hit harder for less, yeah know?)


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Stope

Member

02-21-2010

Variety is the spice of life my friend!

AP build: There are tons of losses for little gain. You maybe heal for a little more, but your dps goes way down and you dont crit as much which is what allows you to heal!

Poppy's ult does indeed put tryndamere's to utter shame. She can't even be cc'd in it by most people, and usually she leaves it with much more remaining health than tryndamere does leaving his!


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LogJammin

Senior Member

02-21-2010

To the OP: As tryndytits as my main im 47wins 36 losses, but im only lvl 29 so im not sure where that sets my ELO. But I would like to know what your build is and runes/masteries. I'll go ahead and tell you mine though and people can tell me what they think about it.

First I will start with the statement that I do feel like if my team and I survive into late game. 3/4 times, we will win due to my actions as trynd. Most people may look at this buld and disagree, but I took someone elses ideas on their build and added my own touches to it. It feels very complete to me.

Runes:
Red = Armor Pen
Yellow = Crit damage (expensive yes, I know)
Blue = AP/lvl 18
Quints = 2x Armor Pen, and 1x 5AP

Masteries are 21 Combat:
Crit chance max
AP per level max
Attack Speed max
Cooldown reduction max
Armor Pen max
Crit damage max
5% dmg

9 Utility:

Dead time reduction max (you WILL be dying as trynd before you start killing)
Ghost improvement
5% faster xp gain
Greed (will be when im 30)

Spells:
Cleanse (obviously)
Ghost

Items:

Start with 2 heal pots + 8% crit item
2x Avarice blades
Zerker's boots
Executioners Calling
Infinity Edge
Guinsoo's Rageblade (sometimes interchangable with Last Whisper depending on what kind of trouble enemy tank champs might be giving you)
Phantom Dancer (sell your avarice blades for this)
Frozen Mallet
^this is usually the main thing to get, all below is just fluff
Sell Boots for a 2nd Phantom Dancer
Sell Exe Calling for a Bloodthirster also if you are so inclined.

I know all the AP sounds silly, but it really does not get in the way at all, and really helps a quick recovery for me I've found out as Ive tested different ideas I've had.

I feel as though the Rageblade was made for Trynd to be honest. It pays off with painful whirlwinds and most of all, it jacks up your heals BIGTIME from using bloodlusts. It will put an end to all of those bull**** DoT deaths after you've escaped your enemies using undying rage.

With the AP runes alone you get a huge payoff with your heals early game. I get my skills in an odd order but it works well for me.

Skills:
Get SS to level 1 and dont raise it anymore until very last
Next get your heal to 1
get your mocking shout to 1, incase ganking opportunities come up
Get lvl 2 heal for decent CD
Now go in priority from here:

Ultimate>Mocking Shout>Heal>Spinning Slash

Everyone has their own playstyles really, but this is just what I do. I would post a general playstyle to try, but I don't think it's necessary. People just do what they want anyways lol. I wouldnt mind some discussion on what people think of this build. I think it brings a great potential out of Ol Tryndytits, for what it's worth.


Also one more note. I do 100% agree with your suggested modifications to Trynd, they dont seem to be asking too much in my eyes either.


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Chillspawn

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Senior Member

02-21-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Craixis View Post
800 games and you're most played hero has had 100 games?
Jeez you must hero swap alot?
I've got 774 games played and my most played has 56 games. 2nd and 3rd have 37 and 34.. Yea I change heros every day.


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Stope

Member

02-21-2010

I'd rather not derail this thread talking about builds and variety of champions played by people.

Ill say your build is good, and I agree with most everything you say. My build is very similar, but variable depending on who I am going against.

Runes: I have near full sets of teir 3 crit dmg, crit, armor pen, ap, cd runes I have played with all of them except AP. Cleanse and Ghost are what I use for my summoner skills aswell.

Anyways, my question to you is: How do you feel tryndamere responds to harassing, and how would you rate his ability to harass.

How do you feel about his ult compared to other champions ults?

I also feel that tryndamere is much more viable at low elo, before every game is constant harass in every lane and people are: timely and accurate with their cc, dots, and have a good feel for if they are going to win the lane skirmish or if they should run and hide behind their creeps/towers. Honestly after thinking about it, I can't think of 1 champion that I wouldn't be comfortable playing against an enemy tryndamere in a lane. Infact, I love laning against him because he is so weak.

Another thing I was thinking about is the difficulty rating on his character description. He is rated as one of the most difficult to play (maxed out difficulty bar), and I never feel that even in the hands of a good player that it ever pays off. They would have been better off going poppy for the superior clone in terms of abilities or even tristana/ashe that offer safer but still strong dps/cc and are both much harder to cc as they are further away.


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LogJammin

Senior Member

02-22-2010

Sorry for the mislead, I was typing that last post on very limited time, I didn't have a chance to explain.

I was just posting that up, because I have an impression most people don't play the same way I do with Trynd and to be honest (and I may still be on a medium ELO or something) I don't have that much problems with him short of early-game. So I was hoping to give you something to play with to see if it works out for you or not. No biggie though, if you play about the same.

To answer your questions though. I feel like Trynd gets cheated early-game hard and I've accepted there is almost nothing that can be done about it, hence the avarice blades. So on his ability to harass I would easily put him at the very bottom of the food chain.

On his ability to respond to harassing, he is quite an able-bodied champ for escaping such situations. Though he has no tanking features about him either, he is just as squishy his whole game as the casters.... only he doesnt get any real quick movements or teleports or ways to harass back.

His ultimate is definitely his main problem in my eyes. What you said in your original post makes total sense. It's not good if you're losing and it's not good if you're winning either. It doesn't scale any form of improvement as you level either.

I can agree currently with the difficulty rating lol. At least since he's so gimp right now, but I can also agree with it on normal terms. Trynd is the most sensitive right now to good timing on when to enter a battle and sometimes when to leave one. You gotta recognize the timing and it's not an easy thing to do at all.

Anyways, I would recommend AP runes for sure as your blues. They basically make your bloodlust skill level on it's own (short of CD reduction and the crit dmg) while you raise other things. Reason I went with it is because I noticed the large multiplier on his SS and bloodlust. I figured it was there for a reason, and that's also why I say the Rageblade was made for him.

Sorry for the derail btw.