Can Heimer ever not be Alt+F4 dodged

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Craixis

Senior Member

02-20-2010

A good heim is a pain to fight, the one you were with pony, was a noob at it.
Those grenades wreck most fights, and if aimed right they can easily win team fights... those rockets are great to harass people trying to hide by their turrets as well...
Heim is a great char... just people don't use him right


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RainbowPony

Member

02-20-2010

Actaly the last time i solo'd heimer he left the lane after i got lvl6 to swap with twitch.
Twitch lasted about 30 seconds (time it took me to return with a ward)
Then i ended up with sivar and mondo pushing against me while there lane was open for us to take another tower.

Dono what they were thinking?


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gandalfrockman

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Junior Member

02-20-2010

Im a bit of a noob to lol, but I unlocked heimer recently and used him alot last week when he was free. so take that into consideration when I say this:
Heimer is the ONLY character who basically totally loses an ability middle game.
Explanation:
You NEED at least a level of turret early on, nothing else you have meets your low level farming needs.
Turrets become almost totally ineffective late game.
-They are stationary. Middle to late game is all about pair or team mobility
-They are trivial to destroy middle-late game. (even upgraded)
-They just dont bring enough pain. If you get 3 or 4 upgraded to lvl 3, they MIGHT make a lvl12 or 14 think twice about going in solo...but at that level no-one solo's its all about 2-5 players working together.
-The enemy can just AVOID your nest. You cant move it, and building a good nest takes so much time that its almost pointless.
-It doesnt matter how much AP you have or how many points you put into turrets, all of the above remain true.

I realize you can build an effective heimer completely around missiles and grenades..... but it feels like your missing at least a half of a character, because you are. Your missing basically all of one skill+a big part of his ultimate+a good chunk of his passive.

If turrets were made viable; then I think he would work far better as a character, my thoughts are as follows:
a)put turrets on little treads and have them follow heimer around. This would keep them effective throughout the game, AND it means that all the time spent building and upgrading a nest wouldnt be completely wasted as soon as either team destroys a turret in that lane. This is probably self balancing since teleportiong back to base would mean all your turrets making a potentially hazardous journey to heimer, and teleporting back would reverse their march. It imposes intresting mobility restrictions on heimer.
OR
b)make turrets ALOT harder to kill as points go into the turret skill, and reduce their cooldown signifigantly. This would mmean a good heimer could slip in behind an enemy push and quickly throw down a turret nest to catch fleeing enemys by surprise. or maybe setup a forward base to cover retreating allys.
OR
c)Complete overhaul...start over from scratch, BUT KEEP THE MISSILES! they just feel right! Killing someone with a hex-tech rocket feels like a triumph of science over Magic.

Let me make it clear Im not saying that heimer is underpowered or over powered, just that he isnt working as intended. From the way his character is presented turrets SEEM like a big part of his gameplay. When a new player starts out with him; completely ignoring what SEEMS like a key element of play is the very last thought they will have. Right now he is only effective if played in the most counter-intuitive way possible, with an item build that doesnt remotley resemble the one suggested, and even then he isnt nearly as versatile as he should be.


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Arlando

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Senior Member

02-20-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by gandalfrockman View Post
Let me make it clear Im not saying that heimer is underpowered or over powered, just that he isnt working as intended. From the way his character is presented turrets SEEM like a big part of his gameplay. When a new player starts out with him; completely ignoring what SEEMS like a key element of play is the very last thought they will have. Right now he is only effective if played in the most counter-intuitive way possible, with an item build that doesnt remotley resemble the one suggested, and even then he isnt nearly as versatile as he should be.
i think theres something youre missing in overall strategy. avoid his nest and he will farm every minion in every wave, end up with more gold than anyone, buy items and carry the game. you have to deal with heimer, you cant just leave his nest alone.

im sure when you played him during his free period, you didnt have the patience to carry, or something. thats not the only way to play him either. he can build a nest, hold that lane 0v2, and push another lane with his allies. a good heimer will argue that he is versatile. champions should not be redesigned everytime they have a steep learning curve to learn to play well.

i think the root of the problem here is that heimer is queue dodged because theres alot of players who dont play him as he should be, more so than other characters.

the problem i see with the OP is how do you know you are the champ thats being queue dodged? if your team is saying pick another champ or they are leaving, convince them that youre good or pick another champion and with 5s left, pick heimer. i think there are far too many theories floating around about why queue dodging is a problem.


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Craixis

Senior Member

02-21-2010

The best Heim's I've seen don't actually use the turrets until late game... those rockets deal nasty damage and his grenade, if aimed right, hits like a truck...
Many a teemo has died to that grenade... to the dead we salute x.x


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yatenkun

Senior Member

02-21-2010

heimer is not a team play champions, and this all game is about team play.
he needs either slight rework like making not turrets but small robots with less dmg that can MOVE, or he needs a skill to move his turrets, or he needs his rockets back to 1200 because now you can fire up to 3 champions but you always fire to 1, if you try to walk close enough to get them to 3 champions then bash comes malphine or ashe stun and your dead.


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Craixis

Senior Member

02-21-2010

He's made to
1. Protect vital areas, such as a turret in a lane
2. Harass at a range
3. Blind/stun characters or bomb turrets with his grenade.
He does great in team fight's because he can control how the enemies move quite easily (they can either run right into a grenade, or run around it, taking longer.)
A good heim can make your life a nightmare, while a bad heim is just "turret died, rebuild turre... died again, rebuild repair, died again... ****"


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gandalfrockman

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Junior Member

02-21-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Craixis View Post
He's made to
1. Protect vital areas, such as a turret in a lane
2. Harass at a range
3. Blind/stun characters or bomb turrets with his grenade.
He does great in team fight's because he can control how the enemies move quite easily (they can either run right into a grenade, or run around it, taking longer.)
A good heim can make your life a nightmare, while a bad heim is just "turret died, rebuild turre... died again, rebuild repair, died again... ****"
2 and 3 are certainly true, with the stipulation that none of the heims that "make your life a nightmare" will have more than 1 point in turret before lvl 13

your first point is an utter falsehood. Even in a total noobfest an unatended turret in a lane wont protect jack-**** past level 8. Even 4, 5, or heaven forbid 6 turrets with some mixed upgrades are just a nice crunchy snack to most champions. And If they have any kind of AoA? its just completely over before it even begins.


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RHINO Mk II

Senior Member

02-21-2010

I'd like to see you stand in the middle of 360 damage rapidfire for more than 5 seconds. Unless you're a tank, but in that case, you'd take forever to kill them.


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Mike

Adjudicator

02-21-2010

Well I don't think heimer is bad at all but i started this thread b/c others always seem to dodge. I do agree the main problem seems to be that he is seen as a bad champion b/c of how others have seen him play. I won't give up any of my heimer tips/tricks but a heimer that doesn't die and gets a soulstealer is essentially required to do well. I often get 500-700 AP and thats when the other team learns to respect heimer. Most pubs don't get that though.


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