Lee Sin Theory crafting!

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oulush

Senior Member

04-05-2011

(Posted once in general)

All calculations are for lvl 18.

AD/CRIT build, Items are; (21/0/9 build,jungle, calculations does not include masteries)

Wriggle's (soon to be nerfed, not possible to use with spellvamp after nerf)
Infinity Edge
Zeal====>PD(late game)
LW
Merc Threads (for MR)
Defensive item(situational.

Total AD (including his base AD at lvl 18) = 248
Crit chance = 32% (before PD, with masteries/no crit runes) 52% after PD

His Q:

180 base damage at rank 5 + 248*0.8 = 378.4

Q+Q combo = 378.4*2 = 756.8 (on hit effects does not apply, no crits, 10% missing HP is not calculated, because it is situational, meaning, it will do different damage vs high health-low health opponent)

His W: It scales with AP, no AP items in this build, therefore his base shield at rank is what you get.

44% lifesteal

Not getting into calculations for Spellvamp, sorry

His E: Tempest

Even thou it does magical damage, it still scales with AD.

At rank 5

200 + 248* 0.6 = 348.8 total damage (200 magical, 148.8 AD)

His R:

600 + 248*1.5 = 972 AD

His Auto = 248 AD, with crit 496 AD

Alright, so the numbers seem fine. His melee does decent, especially if it is a crit. Because of PD+IE crit increase, he has the potential to deal high dps between his abilities (I know its hard to just stand there and auto attack, hence the wording, potential).

All of his abilities is supposed to include ArP, however, rumor is, thats not true. I haven't tested it myself, but without ArP calculations, most of his abilities will be mitigated, even with just base Armor stats.

Because of PD's attack speed + his passive, and basic AS scaling, he can reach around 1.7 AS (please don't quote me on this, but I think this is the number I've seen with PD+passive) lets say we managed to land 2 his between his ability uses. Those 2 hits, which can be done little over a second (think of him as a assassin, so you went in, did your melee and got out) can deal potentially;

248*2 = 496 (without crit)

496+248 = 744 (just 1 crit)

496+496 = 992 (potential 2 crits)

Alright, lets play around, and create an example. Your opponent is standing and ready to 1v1. He/she is full health (whatever that number might be) You open up with your Q (378.4 AD) and dash in (another 378.4). You landed 2 hits before activating your E, one of them crit, the other didn't (248+496), and activated your E (348.8). You finished this without hitting another melee, and using your ult (972). The total is.

378.4+378.4+248+496+348.8+972=2826.6 AD

Remember, this number is before any Armor is calculated. So 100 Armor would half this damage (assuming your ArP is not in effect) However with LW (40% penetration+runes) could effectively, half that 100 Armor, meaning you would do 3/4'ts of this total number as damage (i don't use BC for armor stacking, it requires 3 auto hits, and I don't believe you would have time to benefit from it)

Lets compare this to another AD build. The items are:

Wriggle's (assuming jungling again)
Bloodthirster
Zeal====>PD
Ghosblade
LW

Wriggle's = 23
BT, when fully stacked gives 100 AD
Ghostblade = 30 AD
LW = 40 AD

Which in total is, 23+100+30+40+110(base AD at lvl18) = 303 AD

Lets start with his Q+Q combo

180 + 303*0.8 = 422.4*2 = 844.4 AD

His W will have in total 69% lifesteal with these items.

His E tempest

200+303*0.6 = 381.8 (200 magic, 181.8 AD)

And his R

600+303*1.5 = 600+454.5 = 1054.5

His auto will hit for 303 AD or if it is a crit, for 606 AD

Without PD the crit chance is 25%, every 1 attack out of 4 has a chance to crit basivally.

lets do the same combo as above. Q+Q+2 auto (assuming 1 hit is crit again, however, less likely scenario) +E+R



844.4+303+606+381.8+1054.5 = 3189.7

So the first item build gives us 2826.6 AD, while the second item build does, 3189.7. Both calculations lack his Q's 10% missing HP damage. Also both assumes that one of the auto's were crit.

The second build has a better ArP, meaning, more damage will go through your enemies armor, but is less likely to crit (unless PD is build, which would increase the chance to crit up to 45% + masteries and perhaps runes,which is a good number, but I doubt many games would go long enough for anyone to get their full built).

Both builds are squishy, meaning they are assassin builds. You will get in and out, and that will be your job as Lee Sin. His Q's 10% missing health is very important in these builds, as it is your major damage dealing/kill ability. In both circumstances his auto will do decent damage, the first one providing a higher crit chance, until the 2nd build has PD completed.

The second build will benefit you from your W, potentially even in teamfights, especially if a crit is landed. However, the 2nd build requires you to stack your BT to fully benefit from the AD output, so its a bit more risky choice IMO.

Anyhow, I was bored, and it is a long post. Please correct me for any mistakes I may have made, and feel free to put your input.


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GhostKnyght

Member

04-20-2011

Just resurrected this post from google. Nobody comments on this guys hard work? I say THANKYOU good Sir!

Im actually creating a new rune page off this. ArPen marks and quints, dodge seals, and mresist glyphs. (I would go with crit but dont have the IP)

Edit: Nvm sticking with the HP quints

Edit 2: Going to stick with defensive/utility masteries. Sacrificing survivability for 2% more crit and 10% more crit dmg seems silly.


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oulush

Senior Member

04-20-2011

Actually I made some mistakes here. Calculating his base damage in his abilities, meaning some numbers needs reworking.

I'll get to it today and fix the numbers. Since base damage is not calculated, it should make some difference.

My apologies.


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GhostKnyght

Member

04-20-2011

No, its fine. Im just ecstatic that you took the time to do this. Thanks again. I've had two teams with leavers since trying your suggestions, so still testing.


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ForeverLaxx

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Senior Member

04-20-2011

It still has errors. Ability AD Ratios are off since the patch, and the bases are off now as well. They lowered the base on his abilities but increased the AD ratio. Q and E are now 1.0 ratio and his ultimate is 2.0.

Though, I'm honestly not entirely sure what the point of this post was to begin with. Not to sound rude or inconsiderate here, but what was your goal with this? To show how much damage Lee Sin could theoretically deal with 4 offensive items? In my experience, Lee Sin has trouble staying alive if you want to actually deal that kind of damage in a teamfight, so I don't think this build is realistic. If you have a team that can support you, though, there's no reason not to go for it.


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Quickdash

Member

08-04-2011

bumpy bump bumpers


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Prometheius

Senior Member

08-04-2011

Why? I can run a far more durable build while getting the same skill damage to assassinate carries.

BT, Atma's, Phage, Mtreads, Last Whisper. I'm more durable and I do almost the same damage as you, just less crits on autos.