zilean bomb could get out of you when you touch him

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EvenSlower

Junior Member

02-28-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Craixis View Post
Enemy zilean plants a bomb on your target, his bomb cancels your bomb...
Its a glitch, I think they're looking into it.
thx,

I just bit my desk becouse of it *sad panda*


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PhailRaptor

Adjudicator

02-28-2010

While I like playing Zil, I think the AP ratio on his bombs might be a little high. I almost got a 1 shot kill with a double bomb mid-late game, and I wasn't very fed...


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Craixis

Senior Member

02-28-2010

Aye, but once you used that double bomb, you can't use it again for 15 seconds isn't it?
And compared to Veigar, whose Baleful Strike can increase his AP, he gets hitting hard mid game as well, even harder than Zil, who only has that 1 damage spell.
The Bombs end up becoming little more than a pain end game unless you've gotten 20 kill...ish (any hero is bad at 20 kills, Zil though... ugggg, no one can match the damage... so much death.)
Of course, this makes Zilean all the way through the game, in the beginning-mid portion, he's a great harasser, from mid-end, he's a wonderful support, his ult has an ap ratio of 1:3 ain't it? So he can end up rezzing the tank to almost full HP if he stacks AP (which I've noticed most other Zils do, and I don't blame em.)
Personally I go Mana/Cooldown/AP and hope for the best, it seems to work if my teammates know what the three circling sand timers mean...
Always worse when you have to explain it more than once...


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Kokirri

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Recruiter

02-28-2010

The AP ratio I believe to be perfectly fine. People need to remember that Zilean is also classified as a "Nuker" and this is only possible with the current AP ratio. He's not an assassin or a fighter. Why? Because he only has one ability that can actually deal damage. There is no flow to his damage, it is not consistent. It's a real quick combo (Time Bomb>Rewind>Time Bomb) that accomplishes the burst damage. That is a Nuker. That is the reason why you see Zileans use hit and run tactics.


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Viro Melchior

Senior Member

03-01-2010

My only real complaint is his raw ability to harass early game. Which is due to 2 parts.

First, *placing* his bomb doesn't draw aggro (from creeps or towers). This allows him to tower dive for one hit without the tower taking any shots back at him, as well as harass you behind your creeps without drawing any creep damage.

The second part is simply the range:cooldown:damage combination. It is a never-miss attack (0 wasted mana), that can do extra damage if you don't run out all alone somewhere to blow up. In spite of that, it has both high damage and low-ish cooldown. 15 seconds is not much cd for a harass ability, especially if you're "pro" and laning with someone who can aid your mana regeneration (mana manip or clarity).

The two changes that I'd make to Zilean (that won't actually change his power level) are making CASTING the bomb cause aggro (thus drawing creep/tower fire immediately), and raising the cooldown at low ranks from 15 to 23 seconds (-2 second cd per rank). This cd scheme is what Ashe currently deals with (or volley would be seriously OP early game, without the initial 20 second cooldown).


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IamGrimm

Senior Member

03-01-2010

^ Viro speaks the truth

The only real problem I have with Zilean is his early game abilities. He farms and farms and farms and farms, he won't get hit. If you get close he'll just run away. Now now, I'm not saying he's OP or too strong, not at all. I am just stating he's really good early game.

The last game I played versus a Zilean was fun to play, but he gimped all my kills. I ended with 2-7. He stopped me from really ending someone with his skill, I think he derived me of at least 12 kills. ^^

Now the real trouble was, as I said, early game. Zilean is 'the' anti-towerhugger. Due two lagouts (on both sides) I ended up Zilean vs Rammus. I lacked the ability to really kill him after he popped his first cat-life.

Twas a fun game, but his early game harassing is strong. His bombs end game were just tickles. Zil is fine.


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Amarath

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Senior Member

03-01-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by OMBlah View Post
Whenever I'm Zilean I constantly harass with bombs. Run back, harass s'more. If they can't heal they have to leave after 3-4 rounds. If they can heal. I move to another lane where they can't heal =).

When I'm against Zilean, I'm constantly harassed with bombs. The only counter out there is Morgana.
Sivir isn't very effective because her shield has like no duration, and has to be used right before he casts it.

The problem with Z is people don't understand that he is ap kayle or pirate with no sort game.

See people get bombed then they run. This is how you lose, fight zilean is all about attacking after he used bombs, not waiting until they are gone waiting on his cds then walking back up for some more.

Besides, sion/udyr/ melphite/ eve/ shaco/twitch/ ... anythign with hp/shields/gank can own zilean.
Oh and he is by far the worst character in the game if the enemy team has a morgana. You literally might as well start stacking physical damage items.


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Samjacklol

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Senior Member

03-01-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Craixis View Post
They do 100 damage, you do not know how to counter it properly...
You ended up feeding him because you stayed close to your partner, dealing more damage to him, you run off to the side or away from your teammate to ensure the damage does not spread...
To counter Zilean, all you have to do is catch him, his physical attacks are not only slow, but wimpy, he won't be able to bomb you until 15 seconds after he planted that first bomb unless he has rewind, and even then, its another 15 seconds after that second bomb...
When fighting a Zilean, you have to rush him and take him down, he won't get that buff/debuff otherwise meaning his bombs will hit harder. If he gets that buff, his bombs are weaker or his rewind is on a longer cooldown, making it easier to deal with him.
There's also the fact that when he's defending, he's relying on you to group up with the minions to deal damage to you and the minions at the same time, if you keep him on the defensive, its not an issue, he's best at harassing extremely careful players who like to hug their turret.
In other words, learn how the enemy works, and act accordingly, Zilean is the squishiest guy in the game from start to finish, he's got 2 AoEs at one time (if both hit the same target its 300 damage plus 300 more in 4 seconds, or if it hits one target its two wide AoE 300 damage attacks after 4 seconds, split up so you don't make the damage 600)
Chronoshift is what you should be complaining about it anything, I mean, I can get it down to so short a cooldown I can use it twice in a team fight on our hardest hitter.
I'm surprised no one I've played against has *****ed about that, or maybe they don't realize how much Zilean actually does in a team fight.
I've played him, I know how he works, and I love it when people don't rush me... I can't do a thing when you're in my face other than hopefully slow you down, speed myself up, and run like a bat outta heck.
Walls of text are good ways of getting people to read what you wrote!


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halfNakedNinja

Senior Member

03-01-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvenSlower View Post
ok. for Mordekaiser ALONE.
But what about the other 4 Heros who took sero damage all the time?
OMFG SERIOUSLY IT'S ZERO!! NOT SERO learn english!!
maybe you need to get your eyes checked or something, or you need to do more damage. IE get more ap.


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DeadRamza

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Senior Member

03-01-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by halfNakedNinja View Post
OMFG SERIOUSLY IT'S ZERO!! NOT SERO learn english!!
maybe you need to get your eyes checked or something, or you need to do more damage. IE get more ap.
no need to insult because of his little misspelling

and if he's from another country let him alone because at least he knows more languages than you (he's smarter than you)

instead of insulting...
put your opinion and ideas about how to solve the problem


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