Soraka and Kayle - the Ugly Stepchildren of the Supports

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Zeta

Senior Member

02-20-2010

Soraka is the most ridiculously vulnerable Support character in this game, and her increased healing doesn't really seem to make up for it. Soraka is the only support Champion without any escape ability, being forced to rush Rylai's just to be halfway decent.

Then there's her Ultimate, which is . . . good at countering Karthus, not much help against a team that stacks CC so much that it doesn't matter how hard you're healing, you can't get away anyways.




Kayle - Well, Kayle is what Taric would be if he sucked. While Taric can be built to fill the role of a support/tank or a support/DPS or even a support/DPS/tank, Kayle fails equally at everything. Her nuke/slow is outclassed by many other abilities, her farming ability is lackluster, her movespeed without her buff is atrocious.

Oh, and she's got without question, the worst heal in the game. Healing such an infinitesimal amount that it's hardly even worth mentioning.

What's that? She's got a slow and a move buff that lets her save allies?

So does Zilean. And it's encapsulated in one move. And he can use both aspects of it at the same time. While eating a sandwich.

No, her Ultimate does not make her a good Champion. Giving a Champion one decent skill that can be great with coordination and then 3 garbage skills and a garbage passive does not equal good design. I know the Council likes to pop bubbles on DPS characters, but perhaps they should find another viable strategy so that Kayle and Twitch don't have to be attatched at the hip and she'll be viable at lower tiers? Making a Champion that is totally useless for 90 second intervals is an awful idea.


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Urrelles

Senior Member

02-20-2010

I'm pretty sure there are people who who would disagree about Soraka. The only thing Soraka lacks is damage. I don't think you have faced up against a good Soraka champ partnered up with any other character int his game. If you did, you would be crying about how overpowered her healing and mana regen are and how she is untouchable due to all her abilities being ranged.

People have said that her run speed should be faster, but I can deal with it. Boots of mobility are nto that hard to get and will allow you to get around real nice and escape even batter.

Her abilities are great. Her group heal is excelent for an ability that hit everyone on the map. It does save people form being ganked. It gives tanks a quarter chunk of their life back if you have AP items. That's a very good counter to burst characters like Ryze who can practically kill a person in one combo.

Did I mention that she has 5 moves instead of 4 like most heroes. An ability to regen mana or silence a person and hit them with decent magic damage is some nice versatility in a move.


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Zeta

Senior Member

02-20-2010

Quote:
I don't think you have faced up against a good Soraka champ partnered up with any other character int his game.
In general, I only see Soraka being effective if she's just there to heal Alistar, who does the real healing.

In most situations, Soraka's effectiveness ends at the laning phase.
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Did I mention that she has 5 moves instead of 4 like most heroes. An ability to regen mana or silence a person and hit them with decent magic damage is some nice versatility in a move.
It's not really 5. The reason it was changed was because after about level 10, it's extremely rare for anyone to run out of mana, especially casters. Thus, the mana infusion part of it is useless late game.

The silence is questionable, since it's only utility is often versus other casters, who can burst Soraka down an a teamfight very rapidly - they'll likely focus fire her first since she's the healer, It's only really useful for running away from other casters.

But totally useless against DPS Champions, who can snap Soraka in two.
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It does save people form being ganked.
Not if the enemy team has competent CC or healing reduction. Or both!


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Miiu

Adjudicator

02-20-2010

Soraka can be effective during teamfights but the amount of money you have to spent on AP items to make her heals viable during the gankingphase is too high.
And usually that means rushing astral blessing and infuse to 5 as soon as possible to be even able to heal few times because of the high mana costs. (Nidalee's heal 50 mp *cough*)


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Saint Seraphiel

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Senior Member

02-20-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Miiu View Post
Soraka can be effective during teamfights but the amount of money you have to spent on AP items to make her heals viable during the gankingphase is too high.
And usually that means rushing astral blessing and infuse to 5 as soon as possible to be even able to heal few times because of the high mana costs. (Nidalee's heal 50 mp *cough*)
Yeah but Nida's heal... is what makes Nida OP imo. She has too much... High DPS, An Escape more annoying than Shacos blink (Pounce) and the strongest heal in the game outside of Sorakas ult.


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EchoRex

Senior Member

02-20-2010

Soraka: Astral Blessing is hindered by just ****tastic mana cost, cutting the cost by near half alone would make Soraka more viable.

Kayle: Needs a true remake, the immunity is the only worthwhile ability, and it is best used on some random carry early in a fight instead of as an emergency save.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coma White View Post
Yeah but Nida's heal... is what makes Nida OP imo. She has too much... High DPS, An Escape more annoying than Shacos blink (Pounce) and the strongest heal in the game outside of Sorakas ult.
The low/no costs Nidalee has period are the problem.


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yatenkun

Senior Member

02-20-2010

I must agree with Kayle, but disagree with Soraka, soraka can dominate the whole team by her global heal,
while kayle is something strange.. a tank.. but you have to do AP build, cos you need your slow.
She relies only on her ulti what can make chars like twich god-like for 3 seconds, but her heal is ridiculous, her movement speed is buff with that is fine too, but her third skill that makes ranged attack is **** and whatever, shes weird champion.


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Miiu

Adjudicator

02-20-2010

The thing with Sora's ulti is that if you're going full AP it has the power to let your team survive longer in a teamfight and maybe overpower the other team. But I feel that if you use your ult and get your team to live like 5-8 more seconds to win a fight playing another dd might have saved your team much quicker.

Don't get me wrong I love playing Soraka but 80% your team won't appreciate your presence and is right to do so.


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Chillspawn

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Senior Member

02-20-2010

If you're stomping the enemy team, Soraka will make you stomp that much faster because you'lll never have to return home because with a locket she'll heal all of you and give you mana 24/7.


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Maysin

Senior Member

02-20-2010

Quote:
Soraka is the most ridiculously vulnerable Support character in this game, and her increased healing doesn't really seem to make up for it. Soraka is the only support Champion without any escape ability, being forced to rush Rylai's just to be halfway decent.

Then there's her Ultimate, which is . . . good at countering Karthus, not much help against a team that stacks CC so much that it doesn't matter how hard you're healing, you can't get away anyways.
Flash and Ghost solve all her escape problems for the most part, and unless you have a good team that can save your skin you should not pick anything else for her summoner spells.

Her ultimate is the only heal spell in the game that can reach across map, and is the only heal spell that scales 2:1 (2 bonus per 1 point of AP) if I remember correctly. If you have even 200 AP that's enough to keep any non-health stacked character up for a while longer.

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It's not really 5. The reason it was changed was because after about level 10, it's extremely rare for anyone to run out of mana, especially casters. Thus, the mana infusion part of it is useless late game.

The silence is questionable, since it's only utility is often versus other casters, who can burst Soraka down an a teamfight very rapidly - they'll likely focus fire her first since she's the healer, It's only really useful for running away from other casters.
Yeah, it's rare for casters to run out of mana, but non-casters and some tanks may run out rather quickly, and even at 18 the mana restore is a Godsend for them.

As for the silence, it's purpose is more or less for any character that poses the most threat in teamfights. It's not only good for casters but for champions like Tryndamere who, if getting nuked by the whole team, gets silenced and can't activate his ultimate. For characters like Ryze and Annie, you pretty much shut them down for 3 seconds altogether, which is enough for you to get away or your team to kill them.


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But totally useless against DPS Champions, who can snap Soraka in two.
Of course. Soraka has to have a weakness somewhere, and the summoner spells I suggested up top help her out with that. Aside from that, if built correctly Soraka can actually be a MR tank (IE able to absorbs loads of magical damage without really taking much actual damage). Soraka also makes great bait.

As for Kayle... she is quite difficult to use and build with items, but if done properly all of her abilities actually DO make a difference in fights. Thing is you can't just simply build her solid DPS or solid AP or solid Tank. You've gotta do a mix of all of it which isn't easy.


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