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Negative Armor

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sp00nfed

Junior Member

02-16-2010

Will negative armor values increase damage taken?


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Nihili

Senior Member

02-16-2010

Yes, yes they will.

/thread


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AGCrew Bloodwolf

Senior Member

02-16-2010

I was under the impression it would "cap" at 0.


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RageQuit

Recruiter

02-16-2010

We need more threads about this. Armor pen caps at 0....armor reduction does not.


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Nihili

Senior Member

02-16-2010

Quote:
Bloodwolf:
I was under the impression it would "cap" at 0.


Armor penetration can't get it below zero, but armor reduction can. If you have an armor-reducing effect, such as the Black Cleaver passive, you can actually get low-armor targets into negative armor.

EDIT:
Mechanics FAQ (http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=3287)

Quote:
Q: Can you reduce armor or magic resistance below 0?

A: Yes, although the only things that can reduce below 0 is Armor/MR Reduction. Both percentage and flat penetration do not have an effect after they get to 0 armor/MR.


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xahhfink6

Senior Member

02-16-2010

1. Armor reduction occurs, can go below 0
2. Armor pen % occurs
3. Armor pen occurs, cannot go below 0
4. damage is calculated using adjusted armor

And the answer is very yes, corki has a habit of smashing faces with a trinity-proc'd crit against -100 armor


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Kaied

Member

02-17-2010

Really? -100 armor?
The armor equation is Armor / (100 + Armor). And this gives you how much damage you are reducing. Since this is a numerator divided by a number +itself, it normally caps out at approching zero, except in really negative numbers (see below).
100 armor would be 100/(100+100) = .5 So you reduce the damage you take by 50%
900 armor would be 900/(100+900) = .9 So you reduce the damage you take by 90%
-99 armor would be -99/(100+-99) = -99 So you reduce the damage you take by -9900%. Or in more common terms, you take 99 times more damage.
-100 armor would be -100/(100+-100) = Divide by zero error.
If you use calculus you could say it goes to infinity, but a computer will either just give you the cannot divide by zero error or +- infinity depending on the numerator. Which I am guessing is the infinity vs the error since the game isn't crashing...

-101 armor would be strange.
-101/(100+-101)= -101/-1 = +(?)101 armor mod, So you reduce the damage you take by 10100%.


Its all kinda confusing, which is why I put a post about it in the bug forums, and so far I have not recieved any meaningful post. I would really like some clarity on the subject, as going from -99 armor to -100 armor might be an infinite damage increase, while adding another -1 would be going to -101.. and them taking zero damage...


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Malduk

Senior Member

02-17-2010

Ok, grabbed a coffee, and I think I figured it out...
Formula would be something like:

1 + ARM/100 = HPe / HP ;

ARM being armor, HPe being effective health, and HP being shown health.

In other words:

DMG = 100 / (ARM+100) * ATT.DMG. ;

Since ATT.DMG. > 0, and DMG >0, and you cant divide by zero:
ARM is ALWAYS > - 100

So, there's your cap.

You need 3 cleavers against a low natural armor champion to try if this can cap can be breached, but I'm not sure if it is possible to notice it ingame unless your target gets 5 warmogs or something.


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It Was Friday

Senior Member

02-17-2010

200 magic res = game reads 66% reduced damage, effective health is 3
100 magic res = game reads 50% reduced damage, effective health is 2
0 magic res = game reads 0% reduced damage, effective health is 1
-100 magic res = game reads -50% reduced damage (damage taken is 150%, not 200%), effective health is 2/3
-200 magic res = game reads -66% reduced damage (damage taken is 166%, not 300%), effective health is 3/5

tested with soraka starfalling creeps in a very boring practice game zz

though i did play a much funner practice game with karthus afterwards and my numbers may be a bit off


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Kaied

Member

02-17-2010

Yeah, I kinda did the same thing, Mr. Friday. Basically when we were told the armor equation was Armor / (100 + Armor), it was a simplification. Its actually (through testing) Armor / (100 + |Armor|).
If you aren't familiar with the |#| it means the absolute value of. Basically if it is a negative number use the positive value of it instead.

So:
100 Armor = .5
50 Armor = .33
0 Armor = 0
-50 = -.33
-100 = -.5
Basically At best you can reduce the damage you take as you reach infinite positive armor by 100%, or you can increase the damage you take as you reach infinite negative armor by 100%.
At best (+ armor), you take infinite times less damage, but at worst (- armor) you only take double damage.

Which is a shame, because going from 100 armor to zero, you are increasing the damage you take by 100% (50% reduction to taking full damage, so a 100% increase in damage). While going from zero to -100 you are increasing the damage you take by only 50% (going from 100% damage taken to 150% damage taken).
Its a shame because they wanted every 1 armor to be ~1% decrease in damage taken (and by the same token every 1 point of armor reduction/penetration increasing your damage done by 1%) When with this implementation, its much less effective putting someone into negative armor then it is just reducing them from a high positive number.


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