Quote:

Originally Posted by

**Larias**
TiberiusAudley, we were not discussing 19 stacks. We were discussing 20 stacks. The player in question said Leviathon, due to "complex math," was worth 3500g at max stacks, and that Mejai's was worth "over 5000."

If you want to discuss level 19 stacks, feel free

FINE! You're going to make me re-do all my calculations again, aren't you?

Here we go:

First, we need to calculate the gold value of each stat point for the various stats involved. To get this, we start with the most basic items.

To do this, I simply added the total cost of all such base items and divided by the total stat points of all such base items.

EXAMPLE: Attack Damage value = (Long sword 415 + Pickaxe 975 + BF Sword 1850) / (Long sword 10 + Pickaxe 25 + BF Sword 1850) = 38.12

So we see attack damage has an expected gold cost of 38.12.

We do this for all base values. I won't list them out here, but I have them all saved on a spreadsheet.

Now we have to derive some values because we don't have base items with just that stat on them, example: Movement speed %, Critical Damage %, etc.

To get these values, we use Quintessence expected values. First we calculate the actual quintessence value for those items which we found in step one.

Example:

- Attack damage is 38.12 gold per point.
- Attack damage qunit gives 2.25 points
- Attack damage quint gold value = 38.12*2.25 = 85.77

We do this for all such values (10 total). From here, I added up all of the quint values and divided by the total (10). This gives me an expected average quint value (82.44 if you care)

From here, I can use the expected end value and the quint bonus to calculate the gold per point cost of things such as cooldown reduction.

The values we care about for the snowball items are:

- Cooldown reduction -> 50.27 gold per point
- Critical damage -> 18.48 gold per point
- Movement speed -> 54.96 gold per point

Percentage damage reduction is still not calculable using this method, so we need to use another method, which I will explain now.

Percentage damage reduction can be achieved in three ways:

- Adding armor and magic resist
- Taking the % damage reduction mastery
- Getting full 20 stacks on Leviathan

As reducing the % of damage taken gets more costly the more you currently reduce, the value of the % reduction stat goes up as your base magic resist and armor goes up.

That means, the higher your base levels of magic resist and armor, the more % damage reduction is doing for you in comparison to just getting armor and magic resist.

Example:

At 0 armor, with full stack Leviathan, you would take 85 damage from a 100 point hit. In order to get the same reduction from armor/magic resist, you would need 18 points of defense.

100 * (100/118) = 84.75 damage taken.

So, as you gain armor/magic resist, the armor/magic resist value of % damage reduction increases, according to the following schedule:

- Base (0) = 15% reduction is worth 18/18 armor/mr
- Base (50) = 15% reduction is worth 27/27 armor/mr
- Base (100) = 15% reduction is worth 35/35 armor/mr
- Base (150) = 15% reduction is worth 45/45 armor/mr
- Base (200) = 15% reduction is worth 53/53 armor/mr
- Base (250) = 15% reduction is worth 63/63 armor/mr
- Base (300) = 15% reduction is worth 70/70 armor/mr

In a typical game, a tank will probably have ~150 - 200 armor/magic resist, which is then reduced by enemy player masteries/runes/and items. I figure a base value of 150 for the purposes of this review is fair, though the numbers don't change that significantly at other values near the norm.

With all that out of the way, we can now compare the values of all three snowball items at each charge level:

Blade of the Occult:

Charges - Value:

0 381.1764706

1 494.3784706

2 607.5804706

3 720.7824706

4 833.9844706

5 947.1864706

6 1060.388471

7 1173.590471

8 1286.792471

9 1399.994471

10 1513.196471

11 1626.398471

12 1739.600471

13 1852.802471

14 1966.004471

15 2079.206471

16 2192.408471

17 2305.610471

18 2418.812471

19 2532.014471

20 3469.616471

Leviathan:

Charges - Value

0 479.5081967

1 564.7528

2 649.9976

3 735.2424

4 820.4872

5 905.732

6 990.9768

7 1076.2216

8 1161.4664

9 1246.7112

10 1331.956

11 1417.2008

12 1502.4456

13 1587.6904

14 1672.9352

15 1758.18

16 1843.4248

17 1928.6696

18 2013.9144

19 2099.1592

20 3611.19

*Note - this is using our expected base armor/mr of 150. The end value of Leviathan changes based on your base level of armor/magic resist. At 100 base, the end value becomes 3294.13 and at 200 base, the end value becomes 3864.84.

Mejai's Soulstealer:

Charges - Value

0 431.6666667

1 647.496

2 863.326

3 1079.156

4 1294.986

5 1510.816

6 1726.646

7 1942.476

8 2158.306

9 2374.136

10 2589.966

11 2805.796

12 3021.626

13 3237.456

14 3453.286

15 3669.116

16 3884.946

17 4100.776

18 4316.606

19 4532.436

20 5502.29

So, there you have it. ALL the data.

Make of it what you will, but what the numbers tell me is that Mejai's gives the most gold value per charge (breaking even at only 4 charges, while the other items break even at around 9 charges). Mejai's also has the largest total gold value when fully charged. Approximately 5500 vs 3500, which is nearly 60% better.

For the sake of balance, they need to either nerf Mejai's or buff the other two snowball items.