Calculationg Damage vs Armor and MR

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declawd

Senior Member

03-25-2011

Hey!

I created a program in C++ to easily calculate your damage (either from abilities or auto attack) vs an opponent with a specified Armor or MR rating, taking flat reduction/penetration and percentage reduction/penetration into account.

If you want to explore a scenario (either to help you build a rune page, spec masteries, see how much a full "Q-W-E-R" combo will do, or just a 'what if' scenario) post here and provide a brief overview of what you're looking for.

Edit: Here is a link to LeagueDB forum post for this, I check here too http://leaguedb.com/forums/t87/
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Example:
"Hi, I'm curious how much my Q ability on Veigar will hit for at level 1 with a runebook filled with all magic penetration runes, and the mastery "Archaic Knowledge" vs a runebook filled with all Ability Power runes (still with Archaic Knowledge). Most champions start with about 30-40 Magic Resistance? So yeah that. Starting item Dorans Ring for some extra AP."

And my answer would look like this:
"@johndoe
Dorans Ring: 15 AP + Archmages Saavy (assuming you got this as a prerequisite to Archaic Knowledge) = 16 AP
Rank 1 of your Q ability on Veigar, "Baleful Strike" : 80 + 60% AP

Full Magic Penetration Runebook:
Flat Magic Penetration: 19 (Full Mark/Glyph/Quint magic pen runes)
Percent Magic Penetration: 15% (Archaic Knowledge)
Target MR: 30
After calculating your magic penetration, effective target MR: 9.35

Total Damage for Q vs target with 9.35 effective MR: 82


Full Ability Power Runebook:
Total AP: 16 AP items/masteries + 34 (Full Mark/Seal/Glyph/Quint AP runes) = 50
Percent Magic Penetration: 15% (Archaic Knowledge)
Target MR: 30
After calculating your magic penetration, effective target MR: 25.5

Total Damage for Q vs target with 25.5 effective MR: 88


So, it appears a full AP runebook will give you about 6 more damage at level 1 with your Q. Here is a suggestion, to find a good balance. Try getting 9 Magic Penetration Marks, and the rest AP. This will give you 91 damage on your level 1 Q.

Hope this helped!
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So let me know if you want anything calculated I will check this post semi-regularly.

TL;DR: I will calculate math scenarios for you as far as your damage vs. armor or MR


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declawd

Senior Member

03-28-2011

**Keeping this post up to date with the one on leaguedb**

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Question from grovemage



Hey Declawd,
Can you calculate a scenario for me involving Cassiopeia?

Maxed out on Noxious Blast:Based on Archangel's Staff and Rod of Ages and Morello's Evil Tome and Abyssal Scepter and Will of the Ancients.


With an adjusted magic pen of 34% against an enemy target with magic resist of 164. What would damage output look like?

Answer
@grovemage


Ok, I came up with 2 scenarios, one with a low level and no stacks on your stackable items, and one at max level with max stacks on those items.


Now, I think you came up with your 34% magic penetration by having full red/blue/quint Magic Penetration Runes, and the Mastery "Archaic Knowledge" which is 15% Magic Penetration. You added them together for 34%, yet that's not how it works. First, the flat Magic Penetration is calculated, then the percent.


Rank 5 Noxious Blast:


Scenario 1: Level 9 vs target with 164 MR and no stacks on stackable items:

  • 330 AP + Flat Cassiopeia+Item Mana: 1625 which adds 49 AP thanks to Archangel's Staff = 379 AP
  • Percent Magic Pen: 15%
  • Flat Magic Penetration: 20 Abyssal Scepter + 19 from runes = 39

You effectively lower the champion with 164 MR to an effective MR of 106.25 so your Noxious Blast:


*****Damage over 3 Seconds: 279*****

Now, the ability doesn't specify whether it ticks each second, but if it did:


*****Damage per second: 93*****

Scenario 2: Level 18 vs target with 164 MR and full stacks on stackable items:

  • 350 AP + Flat Cassiopeia+Item Mana: 3275 which adds 98 AP thanks to Archangel's Staff = 448 AP
  • Percent Magic Pen: 15%
  • Flat Magic Penetration: 20 Abyssal Scepter + 19 from runes = 39
You effectively lower the champion with 164 MR to an effective MR of 106.25 so your Noxious Blast:


*****Damage over 3 Seconds: 309*****


Now, the ability doesn't specify whether it ticks each second, but if it did:

*****Damage per second: 103*****

I hope this answers your question!

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keep 'em comin!


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A Skinny Dragon

Junior Member

03-28-2011

I wouldn't mind getting the best rune page for say Auto-attack Damage or a rune page for the best Defend or Damage Resister. Basically a AD and a Tank


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declawd

Senior Member

03-28-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lillguy89 View Post
I wouldn't mind getting the best rune page for say Auto-attack Damage or a rune page for the best Defend or Damage Resister. Basically a AD and a Tank
@Lillguy89

Ok, lets split this up into two sections, AD analysis and Defense analysis

*************************************AD Analysis****************************************** *
Lets say you're playing Pantheon. Here are your AD stats at level 1 with 21 points in Offense, starting with a Longsword or a Doran's Blade:

Damage: 50.7 (base) + 3 (Brute Force Mastery) + 10 (item) = 63.7 (add 5% total for Havoc Mastery)
Armor Penetration: 6 (Sunder Mastery)

Lets look at some rune pages:

Now, for the first set of calculations, lets say your opponent has 30 armor.

  • Full AD: +22 AD = 90 Damage, 6 Armor Penetration = 85 Damage
  • Max Armor Pen(Armor Pen reds/quints, rest AD): +6, + 5% Havoc = 73 Damage, +25 = 31 Armor Penetration = 90 Damage
  • Even mix(Armor Pen reds, rest AD): +13, +5% Havoc = 81 Damage, +15 = 21 Armor Pen = 89 Damage

Now lets say you are attacking Jarvan with a base armor of 14. Keep in mind, Armor Penetration will not reduce an opponent's armor below 0! This is why our results are a bit different:

  • Full AD: +22 AD = 90 Damage, 6 Armor Penetration = 98 Damage
  • Max Armor Pen(Armor Pen reds/quints, rest AD): +6, + 5% Havoc = 73 Damage, +25 = 31 Armor Penetration = 89 Damage
  • Even mix(Armor Pen reds, rest AD): +13, +5% Havoc = 81 Damage, +15 = 21 Armor Pen = 97 Damage
So, early in the game, pure AD is more effective than armor penetration. Once the opponent begins to pile on more armor, however, an armor penetration rune book will carry more weight.
************************************************** ************************************************
Now lets take a look at defensive runes.

*********************************Defensive Analysis****************************************** **
Lets assume you are playing as Jarvan with 14 armor and 420 health. You grab a Doran's Shield, giving you a total of:
  • 22 Armor
  • 540 Health
Lets take a look at some rune pages:

  • Full Armor: +40 = 62 armor = +62% effective HP (+335 HP out of 540) totaling 875 effective HP
  • Full Health: +181 = 721 HP. 22 armor = +22% effective HP (+119 HP out of 540) totaling 840 effective HP
  • Mix of Armor and Health: +126 HP = 666 HP. +27 = 49 armor = +49% effective HP (+265 HP out of 540) totaling 931 effective HP
It seems a mix of armor and health give you the most survivability against AD.

Now, lets look at Magic Resistance. Jarvan starts out with 30 MR:
  • Full MR: +42 = 72 MR = +72% effective HP (+389 HP out of 540) totaling 929 effective HP
  • Full Health: +181 = 721 HP. 30 MR = +30% effective HP (+162 HP out of 540) totaling 883 effective HP
  • Mix of MR and Health (Red/Blue MR, Yellow/Quint HP): +126 = 666 HP. +22 = 52 MR = +52% effective HP (+281 HP out of 540) totaling 947 effective HP
It seems a mix of MR and Health gives you the most survivability against AP.
************************************************** ************************************************
All in all, for AD auto attack, vs an opponent with low armor, pure AD runes are best. However, as your opponents armor increases, Armor Penetration runes gain effectiveness. I would recommend a mixed rune book with Armor penetration reds and the rest pure AD for maximum effectiveness and flexibility.

For defense, the best damage mitigation vs AD is mixed armor/health runebook.
The best mitigation vs AP is a mix of magic resistance and flat health.

Keep in mind, flat health loses effectiveness as the game progresses, as armor and magic resistance give you a percent increase to your effective health.

I hope this analysis helps you decide on the best runes for the roles you wish your champions to play.


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declawd

Senior Member

04-25-2011

Saw a similar question on a different thread, used this program to respond. Bumping this so future questions have a consolidated home!


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CancerousCell

Senior Member

04-27-2011

how about this

a lvl 5 nidalee spear at max range
items: a maxed soulstealer and maxed archangels --- compared to no stacks on soulstealer and no stacks on archangels
mp reds, flat ap quints and blues.

lets say enemy champ has 100 mr

9/0/21 masteries.


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declawd

Senior Member

05-12-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by CancerousCell View Post
how about this

a lvl 5 nidalee spear at max range
items: a maxed soulstealer and maxed archangels --- compared to no stacks on soulstealer and no stacks on archangels
mp reds, flat ap quints and blues.

lets say enemy champ has 100 mr

9/0/21 masteries.
First of all, sorry that I haven't been checking boards, busy stuff going on!

Second of all, lets get crackin'

At level 5 you really did your due diligence to max out those items!

Maxed Soulstealer: 180 AP
Maxed Archangels: (1400 item mana + 445 Nid Lvl 5 = 1845 Mana + Expanded Mind Mastery 5% base mana = 1867* 3% = 56 + 45 itemAP = 101 AP
Min Soulstealer: 20 AP
Min Archangels: (400 item mana + 445 Nid Lvl 5 = 845 Mana + Expanded Mind Mastery 5% base mana = 867 * 3% = 26 + 45 item AP = 71 AP

Level 5 Nidalee Javelin Toss does 230 plus 65% of your AP, at max range 250% of that total.
Your AP with a maxed out SoulStealer / Archangels: 281
Your AP with non stacked Soulstealer/ Archangels: 91
Total Rune AP: (Flat AP blues/quints): 24
Total Rune MPen: 9
Total Mastery AP: (.6/Level * 5 Lvls = 3)
Total Mastery MPen: 15%

Scenario 1: Maxed
Total AP: 281+24+3 = 308
Total MPen: Flat 9 / 15%
Javelin Toss: 230 + 65%AP

You will strike your target with 100 MR (lowered to 77.35 MR with your pen) for 243 Damage

Scenario 2: Min
Total AP: 91+24+3 = 118
Total MPen: Flat 9 / 15%
Javelin Toss: 230 + 65% AP

You will strike your target with 100 MR (lowered to 77.35 MR with your pen) for 173 Damage

Difference: 70 Damage

Sorry this is so late!