Manamune/Triforce on Gangplank?

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Cenerae

Senior Member

03-25-2011

Manamune is bad. Gangplank doesn't need all that mana, and stacks up the tear fairly slowly. Sure, eventually it gives a decent bit of damage...but does nothing else that you need. If you want raw damage, there are better options. A chalice fixes any and all mana issues you might have for the entire game and costs half as much, and also provides MR to help you deal with early harrass.

I don't know about rushing the Triforce, but I have had good sucess with rushing a Sheen. As soon as it's finished, your Q becomes a reliable, strong source of damage and you can start to really put pressure on your opponents. The obvious downside of course is, crits are better in the long run. But then in the long run you can upgrade it to a Triforce and get some hp off it too. I don't think rushing it would be worth it though. I'd rather get an infinity edge and ghostblade before I did that.


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malphismia

Senior Member

03-25-2011

Have you ever thought of just getting Sheen, instead of upgrading to Trinity Force (or maybe delaying its upgrade).

Like, Brutalizer > Sheen > Black Cleaver/Infinity Edge > Upgrade Trinity Force after.

And you can try using MP5/level seals + glyphs if you want to avoid getting chalice entirely, and upgrade Mana crystal-->Sheen instead of Meki-->Chalice.

EDIT: Ninja'd by Cenerae lol


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Sabaean

Junior Member

03-25-2011

I swear every second day some guys posts 'holy sheet, sheen/triforce = free GP crit'
oh, when I went to get the link for my example I realised its the same dude over and over again haha.

Basically, 162 UNMITIGATED DAMAGE != FREE IE CRIT
You really think this is equivalent to an IE crit? Do you have any idea what an IE crit is?
[108 (base) + 24 (E skill) + 75 (IE)] x 1.5(IE crit dmg) = 310 unmitigated damage.
162 != 310 fk

Also manamune is crud on GP, sure he has mana issues mid game (due to mana regen masteries + rune changes). And that is only when you parrrley hit 5-7 creeps in a wave, but I'm sure you guys don't take max CDR on GP and instead complain about weak early game so that doesn't really apply to you does it?

TriForce is fine, extremely cost effective and better early game damage than IE, unless you plan on getting over 50% crit or something. I believe this is the graph some of the better players were talking about (credit to whoever made that, its beautiful).


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CaptainClash

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Senior Member

03-25-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by kwjnfkjsdg View Post
many GP players go straight crit the whole game, but i feel like they will be lacking in many areas in doing so. of course, crit is important, but i feel like these two items have their own incredible benefits for gp.
Stacking crit is kinda pointless if you don't have damage behind it...

Quote:
manamune - lets me get the early game mana i REALLY need. i'm constantly spamming parley and raise morale, which eats up tons of mana. it's also a good followup item from tear, which is amazing early game for gp.
I don't like manamune on GP. You're not going to buy any other mana items except Trinity, and it's just... meh for the cost and build up time. It's good on someone who's going to build a lot of mana anyway, but not all by itself IMHO.

I prefer to start with a regrowth pendent that I upgrade into a philosopher's stone. It eventually pays for itself and takes care of mana needs for basically the entire game, getting it early helps you stay out in the lane as long as you want.

Quote:
tforce - mainly for the massive sheen proc. i believe it's like ez's Q in that it applies on use. base damage+150% extra is basically the equivalent of an IE crit. the movement spd also helps him with his mobility/kiting, and gives him a healthy, needed boost in health.
Trinity Force is an excellent item on GP, I always build it up after boots. The consistant damage it gives you helps you last hit with parley and thus, farm up your other items.

Quote:
my question is, is it good to get these items first? i usually get manamune, cd boots, triforce, inf edge, then stack cloaks, and build phantom dancers out of them.
Once you have trinity force, why are you building PHANTOM DANCERS? There's no point to that, the attack speed is useless on GP unless you really intend to melee people. You should have enough move speed already with boots and your passive from improve morale, get your additional crit and damage from IE stacking. You've also done NOTHING to counter enemy armor. Which matters much more than just stacking crit after you have Trinity Force. Either buy Last Whisper or your first IE after Trinity depending on enemy armor considerations. Follow that up with the one you didn't get. Beyond that, you stack IEs, upgrade your philosopher's stone to another IE last. You'll pretty much max out your crit when you're done (at least as much as is reasonable to do, base+15+20+20+20) and you'll hit a LOT harder than with the phantom dancers...

Sigh, I hate phantom dancer stacking plank. He's so useless...


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CaptainClash

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Senior Member

03-25-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabaean View Post
Basically, 162 UNMITIGATED DAMAGE != FREE IE CRIT
You really think this is equivalent to an IE crit? Do you have any idea what an IE crit is?
[108 (base) + 24 (E skill) + 75 (IE)] x 1.5(IE crit dmg) = 310 unmitigated damage.
162 != 310 fk
This isn't a fair comparison. Trinity gives more than just the proc, you get 30 damage and 15% crit too. IE is a good item on gang plank, trinity is good too. If I have a plank on my team, either item I wouldn't complain about. It's those stacking pure crit or phantom dancers that piss me off.

I'm not sure how the numbers were crunched on your link, but trinity is better if you look at *just parley* damage. IE is better if you throw in auto attacks as well. I like trinity early if for no other reason than EZ mode farming with parley. The move speed, life, mana, etc, just make it that much more appealing early.

Quote:
but I'm sure you guys don't take max CDR on GP
Godly farming skill and global ult of ganking goodness, who wouldn't want full CDR on GP?!? They're missing out!


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Cenerae

Senior Member

03-25-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabaean View Post
but I'm sure you guys don't take max CDR on GP
Ionian boots + ghostblade + 9/0/21 masteries.

Still no mana problems with a Chalice. :]


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VIVr

Senior Member

03-25-2011

Phantom Dancer is a reasonable item... after IE and Ghostblade.

Like it or not, sometimes GP needs to melee.


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gallantgreg

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Senior Member

03-25-2011

@CaptainClash
Hmm not sure why that random name (Sabaean) came up when I posted, I think it has something to do with the forum issue I had where I became a Junior Member and lost my Friend Recruiter Badge.

Anyway, that was in no way a fair comparison of TriForce and IE. But it was to briefly show that what OP said is kinda wrong "tforce - mainly for the massive sheen proc. i believe it's like ez's Q in that it applies on use. base damage+150% extra is basically the equivalent of an IE crit" and that it isn't comparable to an IE crit.

Yeah that chart was just for parrrley, I think that description should be on the chart not just as the filename. I think the person who made that chart has already posted in this thread, it seems to have attracted most of the usual people that talk about GP builds, they can fix it up.

Haha, don't forget the awesome cleanse/heal has a ten point something second cooldown at 40%CDR. Feels so good (read OP).

In general I agree with what most of you guys said. Except that in my last GP game the enemy had a crazily fed Poppy (made me buy a Phantom Dancer for the first time in aaages). Imo Poppy is the natural counter for GP because of that annoying passive, you need more AS and less AD/Crit to damage her properly which kinda goes against what we love =(
I'm interested to know who you guys hate to fight as GP.

@VIVr For most games I would have Ghostblade and TriForce, that has quite alot of attackspeed and movement speed, perfect for when you need to run in and melee.


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CaptainClash

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Senior Member

03-25-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by gallantgreg View Post
In general I agree with what most of you guys said. Except that in my last GP game the enemy had a crazily fed Poppy (made me buy a Phantom Dancer for the first time in aaages). Imo Poppy is the natural counter for GP because of that annoying passive, you need more AS and less AD/Crit to damage her properly which kinda goes against what we love
I still think going for damage over speed would help more. You're not realistically going to get "under" poppy's passive and still maintain realistic damage numbers overall - that's just a losing effort. You can build wits end or other such on-hit damage that'll land true and help you counter her damage, more effective than phantom dancer vs poppy.. But that's just not appealing to me either, I think I'd rather blast her as hard as I can and stay true to the build.


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Shosuko

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Senior Member

03-25-2011

Gah - I tried tri force on gp and I wasn't impressed. Looking at that chart, I can see why. I built it after everything else. I guess triforce is one of those good early items that sucks late, and I'd rather get on with my late game build and leave early game fights to other champs while I ks with my ult and farm farm farm.

Tri force is weak for parrrley because it doesn't add any of the base parrrley damage again, only your base attack. If you crit it crits for parrrley's base attack too, which is a biiig difference.


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