Damage or Attack Speed?

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Arctura42

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Recruiter

02-14-2010

Having only played casters until recently, I've hit a bit of a roadblock. While having 2.5 attacks per second sounds ideal, no one stands around long enough for any conceivable damage to get through (or at least, no one should). Likewise, if all I do is stack damage, I can take down turrets like nothing, but I'm really only capable of burst damage effectively.

Obviously this'll differ from hero to hero, and especially from build to build, but which path is usually the better deal? If a mix of a little of both is better, how much attack speed and how much damage? Do different paths work in different ELOs? Against different champions? Whether you're winning or losing? Any advice is welcome.

I've tried opposite ends of the spectrum, with varying results. I used to go attack speed - getting stuff like malady, stark's fervor, phantom dancer, berzerker's greaves, etc, etc, with very little attack damage. Very recently I tried a very simple to understand damage build (think 6 bloodthirsters), and it didn't work out very well until we got a chance to push.

AND THEN! What do we do about survivability? As a dps, we're squishy and will be quickly targeted, and unless we can kill things before they kill us, we're toast. For mages, there was the good old RoA. Is there a sort of equivalent for this situation? Or do we drop everything and hope (rather fruitlessly) that they don't notice us after we kill them 10 times?

Any advice is welcome - just want to figure out what is best to do given a variety of situations.


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EnderA

Senior Member

02-14-2010

Unless the champion calls for something in particular (like Katarina calls for mass Damage) a mix is definitely best. Really, it's all situational and champion-specific.


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Jazzminkey

Member

02-14-2010

Think of attack damage and attack speed like AP and mana- it is hard to have one without the other (some exceptions aside)

A combination of the two is ideal.

As far as to negate the squishiness- phage is good for a little more survivability and lifesteal is good if you're not too shy to get in there and do some damage. You gotta attack to keep your hp up.


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KennethJT

Senior Member

02-14-2010

I normally play casters and I just focus on high AP, a good start would be getting mejaevs soulstealer around level 7 or something.
But then again, I always play Veigar (fantastic mage crusher) and he's a great nuker.
I like to just wear down my enemy with some quick cooldown nukes that just apply pressure.
Around 60%, I trap, use all my damge specials, and finish with normal attacks if they aren't already dead.

Also for quick runaways, I use Event horizon (slowing AoE) and combine that with Ghost (starting perk) and I usually get away.

Ghost is also great for chasing people trying to run away who have low hp, but just don't get too greedy around turrets.

With Ryze, you can use his trapping spell, but that only works with one person.

With high enough Ap on a caster, taking down other players one on one is a cinch. And with Mejaevs Soulstealer, the more you kill, the stronger you become.

Hope it helps.


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Farplane

Member

02-14-2010

I like to think of it as a math equation where attack damage and attack speed are two related variables.

If you do 500 damage in one hit, but can only land one hit per 2 seconds, you can put a huge dent in the enemy and maybe scare them back, but in reality you're probably not going to do much more (of course, how would they know?)

If you do 120 damage, but attack at a ridiculously fast speed, you'll only make little dents, but those dents will add up fast.

To decide which, look at the DPS you're playing. Does he have an ability that naturally boosts his attack speed or damage? Depending on which he naturally benefits from (via abilitys or passive), get the other.

For instance, I play Sion, and he gets a good amount of ability-based attack damage from his skill Enrage. Therefore, I preserve that attack damage and increase my DPS proportionately by working on attack speed with items.

If I were to have 250 damage and 1.000 attack speed, it would be easier to double my dps by accumulating 2.000 attack speed, rather than gaining another 250 damage.

Likewise, if I had 50 damage and 1.250 attack speed, it would be easier to double my dps by accumulating 50 more damage than to get 1.250 more attack speed.

I'm bad at presenting concepts but I hope all these little ideas will put across what I'm trying to say.


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wildfire393

Senior Member

02-14-2010

The "Default" items for a Physical DPS hero are Last Whisper and Infinity Edge. These closely correspond to the Void Staff and Zhonya's Ring for Casters, only Infinity Edge is always an insanely cost-effective choice, regardless of what your current stats are like (while Zhonya's Ring is generally best saved for a third AP item). These two items combined give you a nice mix of damage, attack speed, crit chance, crit damage, and armor penetration, all of which combine to raise your DPS. After having those and boots, your item choices vary. If you are playing someone who has insane burst damage, particularly based on your attack damage (Corki, Shaco, Ashe, Gangplank, Pantheon), Bloodthirsters are never a bad choice. Phantom Dancer is always a solid pick for more attack speed and crit chance and bonus movement speed and dodge (which aids survival). Frozen Mallet is basically the Physical version of Rod of Ages, as it gives a lot of HP and a handy slow.


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Phi Trigger

Senior Member

02-14-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arctura42 View Post
Having only played casters until recently, I've hit a bit of a roadblock. While having 2.5 attacks per second sounds ideal, no one stands around long enough for any conceivable damage to get through (or at least, no one should). Likewise, if all I do is stack damage, I can take down turrets like nothing, but I'm really only capable of burst damage effectively.

Obviously this'll differ from hero to hero, and especially from build to build, but which path is usually the better deal? If a mix of a little of both is better, how much attack speed and how much damage? Do different paths work in different ELOs? Against different champions? Whether you're winning or losing? Any advice is welcome.

I've tried opposite ends of the spectrum, with varying results. I used to go attack speed - getting stuff like malady, stark's fervor, phantom dancer, berzerker's greaves, etc, etc, with very little attack damage. Very recently I tried a very simple to understand damage build (think 6 bloodthirsters), and it didn't work out very well until we got a chance to push.

AND THEN! What do we do about survivability? As a dps, we're squishy and will be quickly targeted, and unless we can kill things before they kill us, we're toast. For mages, there was the good old RoA. Is there a sort of equivalent for this situation? Or do we drop everything and hope (rather fruitlessly) that they don't notice us after we kill them 10 times?

Any advice is welcome - just want to figure out what is best to do given a variety of situations.
Attack damage is preferred early, since it allows you to farm better. Then attack speed to up your overall dps later on at some equilibrium point that the math will determine.


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Joru

Senior Member

02-14-2010

Attack speed increases in value the higher your attack damage is, and attack damage increases in value the higher your attack speed is. I don't know what the exact mathematical ratio is, but you almost always want a mix of both stats to maximize autoattack DPS.

Bear in mind that some champions need ITEMS of one type more than the other, though. For example, Tristana gains an ungodly amount of attack speed through Rapid Fire, so she should be buying damage more often than attack speed. Mundo, on the other hand, gains an ungodly amount of damage from Masochism, meaning you want to focus almost exclusively on attack speed with his offensive items to balance it out.


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StretchyStretch

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Senior Member

02-14-2010

I usually go for attach speed until its around 1.3 attacks per second, then go for damage, with a little more attack speed in between. If your focusing more on attack speed crit is needed too.


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puzzletrocity

Senior Member

02-14-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by wildfire393 View Post
The "Default" items for a Physical DPS hero are Last Whisper and Infinity Edge. These closely correspond to the Void Staff and Zhonya's Ring for Casters, only Infinity Edge is always an insanely cost-effective choice, regardless of what your current stats are like (while Zhonya's Ring is generally best saved for a third AP item). These two items combined give you a nice mix of damage, attack speed, crit chance, crit damage, and armor penetration, all of which combine to raise your DPS. After having those and boots, your item choices vary. If you are playing someone who has insane burst damage, particularly based on your attack damage (Corki, Shaco, Ashe, Gangplank, Pantheon), Bloodthirsters are never a bad choice. Phantom Dancer is always a solid pick for more attack speed and crit chance and bonus movement speed and dodge (which aids survival). Frozen Mallet is basically the Physical version of Rod of Ages, as it gives a lot of HP and a handy slow.
Actually last whisper isnt really a default item. Its good sometimes depending ur champion. Its better to go crit damage with attack speed so at 2.5 ur crits are huge.


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