What went wrong?

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Cynai

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Senior Member

02-13-2010

So, here was the situation:

Our team comp was:

Ashe (Me - top)
Nidalee (top)
Shaco (bot)
Karthas(Solo mid)
Rammus (bot)

The enemy comp (at top) was Cho'gath, and Kayle.

Nidalee started out with a meki pendant, I started out with a sapphire crystal and 2 hpots.

We were immediately hit by the following dilemma:

1) Allow chogath and kayle to last hit (and gain health with each hit - Cho'gath)
2) Harrass, and in turn lose about ~40% hp from rupture and kayle's slow.

So we did the smart(?) thing and let them push to our lane where we got all the last hits from the minions. Figured this would be destined to fail at some point due to the unrestricted LH potential given to Cho and Kayle.

It happened. Eventually it got to the point where we could not hold them off anymore and we just got harrassed to ****. Ofc, it snowballed from there and we lost the game.

What would have been the strategically correct thing to do in this situation? Should I have bought a more defensive item to start with? Should we have harrassed and taked the heavy hp penalty?

Note that its extremely hard to simply "move out of the way" when rupture is casted due to both kayle's ult and Cho casting rupture behind us (making the outcome either take heavy dmg from rupture, or heavy dmg from kayle/cho)

TL;DR is in bold


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sainthero

Senior Member

02-13-2010

Ashe should always take mid. Get the arrow asap to get kills for you and your teammates. Karthus could've stood a batter chance against the guys you laned against.


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d0rkbrains

Member

02-13-2010

sounds to me like that nidalee you had with you was a failure. in all seriousness, it should be easy to harass kayle down with 2 ranged attackers. keep moving around constantly and make him have to really guess where to hit that rupture and you should be better off. a lot of this has to do with summonor spells...what did you take? you want to make sure you take spells for what you're going to be doing (ie. spells change for people who play mid vs a v2 lane)

finally, talk to the team, organize some ganks :P and like the guy said....karthus is MUCH better in a 2v2 lane when someone like ashe is on the team.

that's all i got.


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lord kratos

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Senior Member

02-14-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by sainthero View Post
Ashe should always take mid. Get the arrow asap to get kills for you and your teammates. Karthus could've stood a batter chance against the guys you laned against.
Ashe should go mid if you didn't have a ryze.


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Cynai

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Senior Member

02-14-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by d0rkbrains View Post
sounds to me like that nidalee you had with you was a failure. in all seriousness, it should be easy to harass kayle down with 2 ranged attackers. keep moving around constantly and make him have to really guess where to hit that rupture and you should be better off. a lot of this has to do with summonor spells...what did you take? you want to make sure you take spells for what you're going to be doing (ie. spells change for people who play mid vs a v2 lane)

finally, talk to the team, organize some ganks :P and like the guy said....karthus is MUCH better in a 2v2 lane when someone like ashe is on the team.

that's all i got.
^ so pro


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iNSiPiD1

Member

02-14-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by sainthero View Post
Ashe should always take mid. Get the arrow asap to get kills for you and your teammates. Karthus could've stood a batter chance against the guys you laned against.
This guy gets -2 for what? (I gave him +1)

His answer is probably the best one. However, both of you are ranged, and neither of you should have been hit by a slow/rupture combo often. If you were, then you need to work on moving out of the way, because you can last hit creeps from a good distance.

The key to dodging rupture isn't to start running as you see the ground moving, it's to watch Cho`Gath himself, and when you see him start raising his arms, that's when you start moving.

Maybe health regen would have helped too.


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JoeBart

Senior Member

02-14-2010

Ashe should have been solo-ing mid.

Since that didn't happen, I personally would have gone the harassment route. But I always try to go the harassment route with Ashe in an attempt to establish lane dominance.

Sounds like you were playing scared and the other two players keyed in on that. They figured out your gameplan and played accordingly.


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TaigaStance

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Recruiter

02-14-2010

Playing defensive with two ranged champions is not a great idea. You have much, much more potential with harassing than they do.
Like JoeBart said, it's a psychological thing. If you're going to start off scared of being taken down, then it'll only go downhill. Coordinate ganks if they over-extend. Switch lanes with someone else if you have to, but never go into submission right from the start. In fact, don't submit at all, otherwise you'll just lose hope.

What exactly was your Nidalee partner doing anyway? Sounded like a disaster.


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Joru

Senior Member

02-14-2010

I would have expected you do have a lot more staying power in your lane with Nidalee. She WAS healing, wasn't she? Also, Rupture can often be avoided if you're careful, especially for ranged.

Between heals and avoiding at least some of the ruptures, your probably should have been able to harass. It was double range against double melee (well, mostly melee).