Udyr survival issues

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Zandig

Junior Member

02-13-2010

I'm a relatively new player (Level 14) without much experience with games like DOTA or anything like that, so it goes without saying that I'm a bit of a nub. That said, the first champion I've bought is Udyr, because he seemed quite interesting to play. I'm enjoying him and have a winning record with him, but I'm having trouble in two specific areas, generally related to survivability. First, let me run down my usual build with him.


Skills:
Phoenix
Turtle
Phoenix
Turtle
Phoenix
Bear
Bear
Phoenix
Turtle
Bear
Phoenix
Bear
Turtle
Bear
Turtle
Tiger
Tiger
Tiger


Items (in order of purchase):
Boots of Speed + 3 health potions
Sheen
Berserkers Boots
Madred's Razor
Phage
Trinity Force
Madred's Bloodrazor
From here on out, depends on what I'm up against.


I use Flash and Cleanse with Udyr.


I've found that I get lots and lots of assists, but I rarely get killing blows because in larger team fights in the mid and late game, if I don't book it after going Bear -> Phoenix -> Turtle, I get focused and die extremely quickly. I can't decide if this is due to my being a wus and running away too soon (need to be confident that the enemies will die faster) or if it's due to my playing too aggressively and allowing myself to be focused or what, but any tips on build or playstyle would be appreciated.


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PatMcGroyne

Senior Member

02-13-2010

Most successful Udyr's I have played against don't get into team fights too much. They stay out as long as they can and if they're team needs them then if they have to go bear run in get a stun go turtle and then go into tiger and go crazy. Most Udyr's specialize 1v1 and thats how they get their kills ganks mid game and 1v1 when someone thinks they are going to pull down a tower.


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Funkk

Senior Member

02-13-2010

Here's my Udyr build, I never have any survivability problems so maybe it'll help you.

Skills:
Turtle
Bear
Tiger
Tiger
Bear
Tiger
Bear
Tiger
Tiger
Bear
Bear
Turtle
Turtle
Turtle
Turtle
Phoenix
Phoenix
Phoenix

Items:
Vampire Scepter (This combined with turtle stance gives you about 25% lifesteal at the start of the game, great for maintaining health early game while laneing)
Beserker's Greaves
Malady (Great and cheap item for Udyr, makes use of your vampire scepter as well)
Last Whisper
Black Cleaver
TriForce
Madred's BloodRazor

Chances are the game won't last long enough for you to get all of these items, but this is the order I buy them in. Of course you can adjust it a little each game depending on who you're fighting. If you feel like you need more health, I'd grab Frozen Mallet. Great Health + Slowing attack is great. Also, I almost never use phoenix stance, just seems like there's always a better stance for whatever I'm doing.

Remember to switch stances a lot so you can get you're passive skill, Monkey's Agility going. When running from enemies switch between Bear (for move speed) and Turtle (For it's shield). Other then that, just play smart. Try to stay at full health with turtle stance and life steal. Stick with teammates and watch for ganks, etc, etc.

I'm only a few levels above you, and I too have little experience with League of Legends and DoTA so maybe this build isn't perfect, but it's worked very well for me. The key is to really just play smart, because if you don't do that it won't matter if you're playing a tank or a squishy little hero, you'll die in the end anyways.


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Zandig

Junior Member

02-13-2010

I use phoenix for 2 reasons. 1, I find it gets me gold a lot more quickly because I can farm and lane/harass a bit more effectively. 2.) It does a bit of extra damage on your normal attacks, so when you stack that with a Sheen proc, it's a pretty rough hit.

I've toyed around with getting a bit of lifesteal, perhaps I'll give that a more serious look.

Thanks for both replies!


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Elva

Junior Member

02-13-2010

go phoenix and focus attack speed aloooot, trinity force/phantom dancer and ifu need hp go mallet after that, never fails for me, the higher attack speed the more breath from phoenix.


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GamBino826

Senior Member

02-13-2010

I think you'd be better off starting with Vampiric Scepter and Turtle Stance, it keeps you in your lane for a lot longer and it really helps.

I'd go something along the lines of this (only a general idea, not a perfect build or anything like that):
Vampiric Scepter
Beserker's Greaves
Malady
Triforce (Probably go Sheen, Phage, then Zeal)

Usually by then it really depends on the other team. If they have a lot of tanks on their team, I would probably go with Black Cleaver, or maybe Blood Thirster. Last Whisper's pretty viable too, but I prefer damage > attack speed on Udyr.

Yeah, I just noticed I have a very similar build to Funkk, except I don't get Tiger at all until I've maxed the other 3 stances out. I usually get:
Turtle
Bear
Turtle
Phoenix
Turtle (max)
Phoenix (max)
Bear (max)
Tiger (3)

Tiger really isn't that useful unless you're tower diving, as opposed to the other stances which are all very useful (Turtle/Phoenix for mob farming, Bear for stunning and chasing/running away).


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Tobyone

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Senior Member

02-13-2010

For survivability, You just have to learn what you can take on, and that just comes with experience. For example, you can take on 1 hit from a tower with a fresh shield with turtle with higher ranks. Keep track of the 6 or 7 second stun timer on bear form, and switch to bear when its up.

One of the key things to playing udyr is learning when to use each stance. The only stance you want to stay in for more than a few seconds is phoenix stance. Bear is used for the stun, and the chase/escape. Turtle is just for the shield and tiger is for killing towers and the first hit. Switch stances often, I usually go Bear -> Tiger -> Phoenix if the fight is going my way. If not, than use turtle stance whenever you feel you need the shield.

Using Phoenix stance requires that you take different items than a lot of people are suggesting on this thread so far. Stacking attack speed takes advantage of phoenix stance more than anything, because its the procs that you get every 3 attacks. This is what makes udyr more of a team player rather than a solo champion, because if you are positioned correctly, you can be doing an extra 200 damage to the whole team ever 2 seconds or so.

Another key thing about udyr is that late game he has very good natural health compared to others. As I play Udyr more as a carry than a support champion, this makes a huge difference because it makes it so I can easily kill champions like Yi or Trist 1v1 or on team fights cause you out last them.

My typical item build is:
Vampiric Scepter
Dagger x2
Malady
Beserker Boots
Bloodthirster
Phantom Dancer

and just other items as i see fit, usually the game doesn't go past the phantom dancer. If you're up against a caster heavy team with a good amount of CC, than get the Mercury treads.

I don't have a skill build i go with 100% of the time. but it usually looks like this.

Phoenix
Turtle
Phoenix
Turtle
Bear
Phoenix
Turtle
Phoenix
Tiger
Phoenix
Bear
Tiger
Bear
Tiger
Bear
Tiger
Bear
Tiger

I focus on phoenix because it is where a lot of your damage comes from, and your farming skill. I only get 3 points in turtle because I am very careful about the fights I pick, and with Malady and rank 3 turtle, you get plenty of lifesteal to recover quickly off minions or creeps. Rank 1 of bear is all you need early for the stun and the movement speed, and tiger is just for killing blows mostly.