[guide] Shaco: Pennywise eat your heart out

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wildfire393

Senior Member

02-13-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by condon View Post
Lets not also forget, as if I needed to defend AP shaco, all but one of his abilities scales very well with AP, where as only two work off of AD.
Maybe I'm missing something here, but looking at his five abilities (counting passive):
Passive: Scales with attack damage
Deceive: Scales with attack damage
Shiv: Scales with attack damage and AP
Jack In The Box; Scales with AP
Clone: Scales with Attack Damage (the clone can autoattack you know) and AP

So 4/5 scale with attack damage and 3/5 scale with AP.


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condon

Senior Member

02-14-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by wildfire393 View Post
Maybe I'm missing something here, but looking at his five abilities (counting passive):
Passive: Scales with attack damage
Deceive: Scales with attack damage
Shiv: Scales with attack damage and AP
Jack In The Box; Scales with AP
Clone: Scales with Attack Damage (the clone can autoattack you know) and AP

So 4/5 scale with attack damage and 3/5 scale with AP.
Sorry, I only said "Well" once.

Lets review:

Passive: Boring. No one listens to passives. What are you, Poppy?
Deceive: Dump stat. Nice blink. Works better with *eyuck* AD. Woo.
Shiv: Works twice as well per point of AP.
JitB: HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. HAH.
Clone: Massive nuke, scales very well with AP without having to actually stop to auto attack. AoE. Can be used separately from actual clown while planting traps/ lining up for a shiv, whereas with AD if you aren't standing still auto attacking you're not doing ****.

If I'd wanted to right click my way to victory, I'd play Yi.


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Fluffy1

Senior Member

02-14-2010

In regards to his skills, all of them but deceive scale far better with AP than damage.

His passive also affects his skills, throw that nuke Shiv at their back and it goes into insane damage, same with jitb's and the clone, love when people turn their back on it before it pops.

His jitbs can easily do 250 damage a shot with enough AP, Nuff said.

Shiv toss - easier to get AP than damage.

And then theres the clone, if you went damage people will kill this thing in 2 seconds, if your AP people will run from this thing rather fast, which one is more useful in team fights?

The fact is that AP Shaco doesn't actually have to risk getting himself killed by getting into melee range very often is why i see AP as better, but people think killing alone wins this game and try and get greedy, hence why you need skill and patience to play AP Shaco.

Your guide is amazing Condon, its been a while since I've played AP Shaco, might dust him off and bring him back. One suggestion though, ever considered the death-fire grasp? I used it to chop their carry down with two shiv mid fight while stealthed, rather funny with all that AP and magic pen.

Otherwise love it.

PS. Guardian angel is hilarious on Shaco :P


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condon

Senior Member

02-14-2010

@fluffy

I have tried it, and find it too unwieldy for my tastes. I find I have enough on my place between positioning two clowns and trying to get my JitB's just right. The dent in the coffers is also a concern, I could never find the proper place to put it in the build order, and quite frankly I'm normally not involved in the first 50% of the health bar, it's either JitB or my allies, which severely limits the use of the grasp.

I do, however, understand that it is a perfectly acceptable item on AP shaco, and could work well for playstyles somewhat different than my own.

Guardian angel IS hilarious, but for the same reasons above I usually don't pick it up.


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VasudeVa

Senior Member

02-14-2010

Does Banshee's work with his ulti? If it does, isnt it a little counter-intuitive that the clone should have the shield?

Love your guides. Will be trying AP Shaco again, see how it works out. Tried it before, boy that was a bag of fail. But I see how JitB can be an effective harassment tool and ganking tool.

Always went with tanky-shaco. Guardian Angels + Stacking sunfires(2 sunfires for the price of one!) + Hallucinate is always funny. Brings a tear to my eye when they go "WHAT? I have to kill this ****er again?". Add Zilean teammate for the lulz.


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condon

Senior Member

02-14-2010

Banshees does work, but it's tricksy.

If you have the bubble on when you trigger ult, you both get the bubble.

If it's off, neither do.

If it comes up while the ult is active, only the real clown gets the bubble.


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Darky101

Junior Member

02-16-2010

AP shaco is fun.. and each JITB can do upward to 400-500dmg a hit late game


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Grovel

Senior Member

02-16-2010

I just can't play melee carries, and when I tried this it definitely suited my passive-aggressive style, but I need more help with gameplay details. Here's basically what I did.

-Level 1: Kill Golem with Box then head to my lane.
-Early Laning: Keep JitB in bushes, one at river usually too. Harass with Shiv.
-Go buy Philo Stone, head back to lane (mana is usually more of an issue here, as I no longer have Golem, so I tend to just use boxes like wards and harass with Shiv.

Here's where I get kind of lost. I feel like I don't know what to do besides lane. I tried to help with ganks, but it felt like I'd be more useful soloing a lane thanks to being nearly ungankable, and out level everyone. But if I just sit in a lane Mejai's is doing nothing for me. I ended up finishing the game something like 0/0/6 because I was just left alone at top.

I tried setting up random traps, but they do nothing without AP, which I wasn't increasing. How do you get early kills with this build to start snowballing? Is it all about using your clone from the bushes? Are you just following around your team hoping to pick off stragglers by deceiving into them? Are you just relying on assists early on?


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condon

Senior Member

02-16-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grovel View Post
I just can't play melee carries, and when I tried this it definitely suited my passive-aggressive style, but I need more help with gameplay details. Here's basically what I did.

-Level 1: Kill Golem with Box then head to my lane.
-Early Laning: Keep JitB in bushes, one at river usually too. Harass with Shiv.
-Go buy Philo Stone, head back to lane (mana is usually more of an issue here, as I no longer have Golem, so I tend to just use boxes like wards and harass with Shiv.

Here's where I get kind of lost. I feel like I don't know what to do besides lane. I tried to help with ganks, but it felt like I'd be more useful soloing a lane thanks to being nearly ungankable, and out level everyone. But if I just sit in a lane Mejai's is doing nothing for me. I ended up finishing the game something like 0/0/6 because I was just left alone at top.

I tried setting up random traps, but they do nothing without AP, which I wasn't increasing. How do you get early kills with this build to start snowballing? Is it all about using your clone from the bushes? Are you just following around your team hoping to pick off stragglers by deceiving into them? Are you just relying on assists early on?
Well, following the blink box stab method in the game play section, you can usually take someone down from half. I'd suggest avoiding shiv spam early, as its a real mana drain for very little output until you get the ball rolling on your AP cache. If you think you can get away with it, set up a couple of boxes behind enemy lines and lane nearby, then if you're lucky some ******bag will come try to gank you/support the lane you're in. They walk into the boxes, you blink over, shiv, clone, stab, lol, etc.

Failing that, harass harass harass. Throwing a JitB out behind their creep will still probably chunk 150-200 damage off the enemy hero. Using your critical backstab from deceive, even without AD items, will usually do the same or better. You don't need to be finishing the fight to use your abilities, just setting up for a final shiv/ignite a minute later.


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condon

Senior Member

02-19-2010

@tibbers I tried it, I found it entertaining, but I just have so much more fun playing AP. I can't really speak as to how effective it is to double over AD, because I spent most of my time doing AP or AD, but I can say that it works on paper. Sorry I didn't respond sooner, I missed your post.

I'd like to note that I apologize profusely for seeming bristly. I've just finished reading a certain other Shaco guide that was posted and mentioned in this thread, and I feel nothing but shame for not understanding why you were so indignant about my methods or presentation. I assure you, I'm not such a pompous ****bag in game, nor would I presume to belittle the opinions or play styles of others without proper proof. I do however take great offence to the comparison Inept. Great, bee-rage filled offence.

Ouch dude.


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