500 ap adc Nidalee

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Eagle Orion

Senior Member

04-14-2013

So a while back I did some tests on adc nidalee (not the glass-cannon 3 bloodthirsters, cap tiger q, screw all else builds, but a standard adc build with focus on attack speed for her ranged autoattacks.) I liked the how the 60% attack speed boost on her heal could cap her attack speed, turning her into a machine gun. But I still wondered if there was a way to split the difference between ap and ad to make her heals and thrash nukes still viable. After doing some testing (and then buying whole sets of scaling ap glyphs, scaling mana regen seals, and movement speed quints JUST to try this out) I came up with a 500 ap, 272 ad, 65% crit build (yes, it's true).

First build (discussed in this post, others discussed later)

http://leaguecraft.com/lnk/V1H

Second build (4k cheaper, but reliant on ownage through SOTO and Mejai's)

http://leaguecraft.com/lnk/54H

Third build (Even cheaper. Sacrifice crit for spell vamp and nunu comboing (Got up to over 800 ap and 350 ad and 60% spell vamp with this one with stacked auras (as did nunu.) And our stacked heal/boil buffs came to roughly 1.9 attack speed. Base movement was roughly 430. Went to over 500 with boil and bush passive. Consider using triforce instead of hextech for spellblade.)

http://leaguecraft.com/lnk/v9H

I rely on my quints, phantom, and trinity force to substitute boots. The listed build only shows a 357 movement speed, but it's patch outdated, since it assumes a 310 base movement speed (which is stupid, and wrong. It's 355 base.) Just notice that the %move buff is 47, which is equivalent to tier 2 boots. For mana regen, I rely on seals and possibly Eleisa's Miracle, since it doesn't fill a slot if bought early enough.

Now, there's one overriding reason why this build isn't viable at all. No, it's not the complete lack of defenses (she's a dual carry. What do you expect?) It's the fact that it's FREAKIN' EXPENSIVE (20k gold), which only occurred to me after several games of not getting past double zeals, rabadon's, and hextech before my team either won or lost the game (I'd say it had about a 50/50 success rate. You get all the ap you need early on, and you trade defenses for turret killing with double zeals (which substitute boots early game). Nobody expects a nid backdoor. Honestly, the trade is probably on the bad side a bit, but you can manage.) There was game in 3s that was very long. In THAT case, I got it off, and yes, it was terrifying. Being able to range autoattack burst, tiger ad burst, tiger ap burst, spear toss burst, heal, life steal, and spell vamp (oh, and did you notice the spell blade and slow?) is pretty absurd. I mean it's really absurd. And still having 23 base mana regen + Eleisa's for a total of 38 mana regen is also absurd.

Even if it's cost is totally prohibitive, it's still worthy of note. I don't think I've seen anything quite as nasty as adpc nidalee (or anything that actually classifies as adpc. Hybrid carries don't count. They lean on one side or the other of the ap/ad fence depending on their builds.)

You can also consider exchanging either one of the hybrid items for something more defensive and still maintain a hefty amount of ap and ad with 55% crit.

Suggestions anyone (other than "don't do this ever"?) I mainly tried this in mid, since you'll need all the gold and exp you can get, but I have wanted to try it with nunu supp bot, just to stack our attack speed buffs. Also, with his move buff, you'll get away with bootlessness even more. I suspect his nom and my heal would get pretty freakin' annoying in bot.


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Sagee Prime

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Senior Member

04-14-2013

The problem you run into is cost and time it takes for you to be effective. Also your movement speed.


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Eagle Orion

Senior Member

04-14-2013

Remember, the phantom, quints, and trinity come to 17.5% movement speed boost, which for a base movement speed of 335 (EDIT: the stats page I checked was outdated too. It's 355. You will get over 400 significantly.), comes to 58 extra movement speed (that's actually tier 3, come to think of it.) So movement is not a problem with the right build order. If you get a zeal (which costs about as much as boots) early, that plus quints comes to 32. You can bump it to past tier 2 level with one more zeal, if you have 1200 gold to spare at some point. I get some zhonya or rabadon build items, then zeal, then finish zhonya or rabadons, then another zeal, then whichever ap item I haven't started on yet. Once you have zhonya's and rabadon's, you can function just fine on the ap side, and about at the same build timing as regular nidalee (assuming you're not hurting for mana regen). Then it's just a matter of getting the ad off the ground. Yes, I did say it wasn't viable due to cost, but you can still be EFFECTIVE early and mid game (at least ap-wise if you pick the build order I just mentioned.)


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Sagee Prime

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04-14-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eagle Orion View Post
Remember, the phantom, quints, and trinity come to 17.5% movement speed boost, which for a base movement speed of 335, comes to 58 extra movement speed (that's actually tier 3, come to think of it.) So movement is not a problem with the right build order. If you get a zeal (which costs about as much as boots) early, that plus quints comes to 32. You can bump it to past tier 2 level with one more zeal, if you have 1200 gold to spare at some point. I get some zhonya or rabadon build items, then zeal, then finish zhonya or rabadons, then another zeal, then whichever ap item I haven't started on yet. Once you have zhonya's and rabadon's, you can function just fine on the ap side, and about at the same build timing as regular nidalee (assuming you're not hurting for mana regen). Then it's just a matter of getting the ad off the ground. Yes, I did say it wasn't viable due to cost, but you can still be EFFECTIVE early and mid game (at least ap-wise if you pick the build order I just mentioned.)
most people will be at 400+ movespeed so you will be considerably slower. You need boots in order to have an effective item build and there is no way around that.


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Eagle Orion

Senior Member

04-14-2013

Yeah, but what items to standard Nidalee build for speed other than boots? Her speed is comparable to that of standard nidalee. Then again, more squishy carry times need more speed.

New idea: Did some testing with hybrid kat tonight, when a friend reminded me of SOTO and soulstealer. As dirt cheap as they are, I thought they might provide a more viable option. This brings the cost down to 16k:

http://leaguecraft.com/lnk/54H

EDIT: Okay, so apparently the leagueoflegends wikia site is also out of date. It's not 335 base, it's 355. Which puts her at 410 after done. Plus don't forget her leap, spead buff as tiger, and bush speed buff. And if you max out SOTO (unlikely, but more likely than getting 20k gold) your at 450 with no boots.


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Sephïroth

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04-15-2013

Time. Nidalee is already not an early game champion. This just makes her a late game come later and her mid game atrocious.


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Eagle Orion

Senior Member

04-15-2013

I don't ever recall having trouble with nidalee early game, especially in mid. Although it could be because I sacrifice the standard flat armor seals for flat mana regen (which, if you're in mid against what will probably be a magic-based champ, that's not a bad idea.) I can basically soak all their bruising for a long time.

So I tried a new build with a friend last night. We did a nunu/nidalee combo on this one. Added to the starting post.

Third build (Even cheaper. Sacrifice crit for spell vamp and nunu comboing (Got up to over 800 ap and 350 ad and 60% spell vamp with this one with stacked auras (as did nunu.) And our stacked heal/boil buffs came to roughly 1.9 attack speed. Base movement was roughly 430. Went to over 500 with boil and bush passive. Consider using triforce instead of hextech for spellblade.)

http://leaguecraft.com/lnk/v9H