Melee and gap closers.

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Kiyome

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Senior Member

03-20-2011

I started playing LoL a couple weeks ago, and am fairly familiar with the genre from the original dota and a few games on other games similar to LoL. As is natural in these games, melee characters generally have higher base stats for the increased risk of having to walk up to their enemy in order to deal damage, early game especially.

That's common sense in the sake of balance, but there-in also lies the problem I've encountered recently. As opposed to melee characters, ranged characters are generally sort of frail, and tend to not last long should someone get into range. Of course, that's given that they're usually mage-type or ranged carry champions who make sense being squishy. There's obvious exceptions to both of these situations (Read: Yi and Vlad), but usually it's a rule of thumb.

Introduce the gap closer/escape mechanism. A quick skill that generally shortens the distance between point A and point B, or the sharp part of a melee character's weapon and a squishy mage. In an aggressive game like LoL, where items make a very clear difference in the power of the person using them, I've found that a lot of melee characters are able to gap close to harass and quickly get out of harm's way before retaliation, and then even use that same mechanism to get close enough to tower dive a squishy after being pushed back, even in the early game.

My question to you, the LoL strategy forum, is what would be the most effective way for a squishy to combat early game harassment from melee and their gap-closing capabilities?

tl;dr: Melee hurts me. Hurts me good.


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skullmac

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Recruiter

03-20-2011

Harass them first is my main suggestion. You could always pick up exhaust or flash to slow them down or make a quick getaway.


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Prometheius

Senior Member

03-20-2011

Bush juking and range skills.


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ErgonomicAxe

Senior Member

03-20-2011

This is part of the reason that ghost and flash are by far she most popular summoner spells at higher levels. Using these will keep melee characters from getting to you before you can harass them. Harassment and juking with bushes were good suggestions. The bottom line, though, is that ranged carries really don't add as much as melee carries to a team unless that team knows how to teamfight. If you're still playing with new players who push lanes and gank randomly without buying wards or teaming up, maybe you shouldn't bother with ranged ad characters for awhile. The value of ranged ad comes when you have a team that uses crowd control to kite melee ad while keeping their ranged ad safe. I personally play Janna more often than any other character, currently ranked at 1480. I shield the ranged ad for extra damage, knock up melee chars and slow them, and finally ult when they do get close enough. My ranged ad has gotten off 10 hits to their 1, and the value is clear. I hope that helps.


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iCaughtEmAll

Senior Member

03-20-2011

flash is a dps champs best friend, usually they have an ability to get close, but its on cooldown when they need to get out. so flash out behind your tank and wait for another oppruntunity to get back in and cause havoc


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jamned

Member

03-20-2011

I'm of the belief that there are many different play-styles out there for almost every character. So my TLDR response to you is "it depends".

Long answer:

Look at how they're getting you.
-Are they flashing in?
-Are they ghosting in?
-Are they using an ability?

Think of how you can respond
-vs flash (and only flash): consider how long it's been since they last flashed. If you can, try to approximate the last time they used it. There's an in-game clock on the upper right. Usually approximating to the nearest 30 seconds is good (also note that they could have the -15% cd for summoner skills, so if you're in games of lv 21 or higher, you may need to readjust your timing for how much "safe" time you have.

-vs ghost: treat it similarly for flash. You have a little more time before they close in and get you, though. In addition to playing safer when their spell could be ready, you could use other skills too. Do you think you can react fast enough to flash away when someone activates ghost? Be honest with yourself and try to ignore the rager-teammates in game. They'll throw out accusations and inflammatory comments. This makes me (and most people I've seen) want to deny that you may indeed be less skilled than your opponent. Denying this possible truth can cause so much damage. Be honest to yourself. If your answer to how to counter their gap-closer is that "I'll just react faster", you have to consider that this may not be possible for you to do (at least without more practice).

-vs character skills: treat as above, but also look for specific counters. Tryndamere has a gap-close skill that's basically a straight dash. Try predicting the line he'll take and run perpendicular to this line. That'll buy you time to possibly find another escape.

Unfortunately, this means you have to know at least roughly how each character works in order to counter their gap closers. It's not an easy task, but if you can sit down and play a game, even a bot game, with every character, you'll be much better equipped. It can be a grind, so consider how much fun and how much work you want out of the game.


If your answer to "how are they closing the gap" is "I don't know", then accept that. You're not familiar enough with the summoner skills, character skills, or tactics they're using to predict when they'll use it. You can still respond strategically in this case. Play safer. Try to kill minions still, but don't tower dive. If you have to, wait for their minions to get into safety range of your tower and kill them there. Yes, you'll get fewer minion kills this way, but think of it as paying for gank insurance (or harass insurance). You getting 20 more minion kills isn't worth them getting 300 gold and taking you out of the game for at least 30 seconds.


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Crazyflames

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Senior Member

03-20-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by ErgonomicAxe View Post
This is part of the reason that ghost and flash are by far she most popular summoner spells at higher levels. Using these will keep melee characters from getting to you before you can harass them. Harassment and juking with bushes were good suggestions. The bottom line, though, is that ranged carries really don't add as much as melee carries to a team unless that team knows how to teamfight. If you're still playing with new players who push lanes and gank randomly without buying wards or teaming up, maybe you shouldn't bother with ranged ad characters for awhile. The value of ranged ad comes when you have a team that uses crowd control to kite melee ad while keeping their ranged ad safe. I personally play Janna more often than any other character, currently ranked at 1480. I shield the ranged ad for extra damage, knock up melee chars and slow them, and finally ult when they do get close enough. My ranged ad has gotten off 10 hits to their 1, and the value is clear. I hope that helps.
This, until people fight as a team at high levels, support champions and champs that can't win the game singlehandedly when fed enough aren't as good at low levels, once you get smart teams and such though some champs become much more powerful while others get destroyed by organized teams, where it was the other way around with unorganized teams.


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Something Snazzy

Senior Member

03-20-2011

I'm going to assume you are talking about playing a ranged (AP or AD) carry in a 2v2 during laning phase.

1) Always stay on the other side of your minions, even if they do not have a skill shot (like blitz or mundo). Few heroes can pass through minions without effort. Even if they flash in, they will still have to walk around to retreat.

2) Grab flash, exhaust, ghost, etc. Leave things like clairv, heal, fortify to your support (or tank). They will typically build a little bit tankier than you and will not need an easy way to retreat.

3) Poke as often as possible, ESPECIALLY when you know their flash/ghost is on CD. Summoner skills have quite a long CD. That melee carry will be much less likely to charge you when they are at half health due to poking.

4) Ward bushes. Most melee characters run in and out of the brush to last hit while avoiding your pokes. A ward fixes that easily.

5) Do not push. Only last hit. Unless they have copious amounts of hard CC, they will not be able to kill you before you can retreat a couple steps. Most melee characters are awful at tower diving at lower levels, so being able to hop under your tower quickly is the difference between dying and getting hit a couple of times.

6) Do not build glass cannon. If you are getting hurt by a melee DPS, buy things like Zhonyas or Thornmail. Also, do not be afraid to build part of your defensive items earlier. Grab a chainmail at an earlier level and wait to build it up.

7) Do they have a lot of CC? Grab merc treads. If not? Grab boots of swiftness. Melee characters need to stick to you in order to do damage. Either of these boots will give you the ability to kite and poke. Stats from zerker greaves and sorc boots can be found elsewhere pretty easily, the extra speed and CC reduction cannot.

8) Lane with a melee character or someone with some sort of support/CC. For example, Janna's shield and knockup can protect you while you easily harass. Placing two ranged carries in the same lane is great for very early harassing but the other team can usually just tower sit until a gank shows up, and then you are screwed.


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Kiyome

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Senior Member

03-20-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by jamned View Post
I'm of the belief that there are many different play-styles out there for almost every character. So my TLDR response to you is "it depends".

Long answer:

Look at how they're getting you.
-Are they flashing in?
-Are they ghosting in?
-Are they using an ability?

Think of how you can respond
-vs flash (and only flash): consider how long it's been since they last flashed. If you can, try to approximate the last time they used it. There's an in-game clock on the upper right. Usually approximating to the nearest 30 seconds is good (also note that they could have the -15% cd for summoner skills, so if you're in games of lv 21 or higher, you may need to readjust your timing for how much "safe" time you have.

-vs ghost: treat it similarly for flash. You have a little more time before they close in and get you, though. In addition to playing safer when their spell could be ready, you could use other skills too. Do you think you can react fast enough to flash away when someone activates ghost? Be honest with yourself and try to ignore the rager-teammates in game. They'll throw out accusations and inflammatory comments. This makes me (and most people I've seen) want to deny that you may indeed be less skilled than your opponent. Denying this possible truth can cause so much damage. Be honest to yourself. If your answer to how to counter their gap-closer is that "I'll just react faster", you have to consider that this may not be possible for you to do (at least without more practice).

-vs character skills: treat as above, but also look for specific counters. Tryndamere has a gap-close skill that's basically a straight dash. Try predicting the line he'll take and run perpendicular to this line. That'll buy you time to possibly find another escape.

Unfortunately, this means you have to know at least roughly how each character works in order to counter their gap closers. It's not an easy task, but if you can sit down and play a game, even a bot game, with every character, you'll be much better equipped. It can be a grind, so consider how much fun and how much work you want out of the game.


If your answer to "how are they closing the gap" is "I don't know", then accept that. You're not familiar enough with the summoner skills, character skills, or tactics they're using to predict when they'll use it. You can still respond strategically in this case. Play safer. Try to kill minions still, but don't tower dive. If you have to, wait for their minions to get into safety range of your tower and kill them there. Yes, you'll get fewer minion kills this way, but think of it as paying for gank insurance (or harass insurance). You getting 20 more minion kills isn't worth them getting 300 gold and taking you out of the game for at least 30 seconds.
I like this answer. Generally what they're doing is champion skills, Kat's Shunpo, Jarvan's spear thrust, recently Nocturne's shadow path. I've not been playing for too long, as is probably very clear from the question at hand. More or less I've learned who does what to get where, and for the most part I've learned to do my best to keep out of range, but I wondered if there was a better way.

As a player I tend to either run support or an ap burster, which has since instilled a fear of characters who can easily catch up by means of their skills. I think a lot of it is getting in practice and learning to be more aware of things like summoner spells the enemy uses, but it's good to know a direction to go for when learning these things. Thank you all for your input.


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DoomScar

Senior Member

03-20-2011

Solution:

-Lane up with a healing support champ. Sometimes if you try to harass opponents only with auto attacks, you'll get minion aggro and lose life drastically.

-If you're a ranged support, go harass by yourself. In this way you can harass people consistently by auto attacking and healing yourself afterwards.

-Always use the brush to your advantages. Duck in the brush, get out, harass with auto attack, duck in again so you'd lose the minion aggro.


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