Not Getting Better, But Getting Worse?

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BamSucka

Senior Member

02-08-2010

I'm a new player to both DOTA and LoL, however not new to War3 and hero control. When I first started out playing this game I was doing fairly well. I'm still figuring things out so I stick to the guides fairly closely (item builds, skills etc), mostly using Condon's stuff because it is hilarious to read.

I started out with a surge and even went on something like a ten game win streak. Ended up around 22 wins / 9 losses at level 11.

Now I am losing like crazy and have even gone negative (28 wins / 30 losses). My Gangplank went from an extremely positive K/D to even 1:1.

My largest trouble is farming. I don't seem to be bringing in the cash like I should. For example using Gangplank with Heat n' Serves guide (Haunting, Boots, Sheen, Infinity Edge, Trinity) I can usually barely get to Infinity Edge before the game ends.

I just feel like I am getting worse or something. It also doesn't help that the matchmaking is sort of odd lately. I keep running into lvl 25-30 teams, when mine is full of lvl 12-16.

Any thoughts would be appreciated!


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Absalon

Senior Member

02-08-2010

You feel worse because you've started playing against better players. You're out of the newbie island, so the shortcomings of the matchmaking system are starting to rear their ugly head: in LoL, you're either in the newbie island (level 1-13ish) or you're playing against level 25+ players. There seems to be no middle ground, and part of me wonders where all those mid-level players are at since we all seem to see only the extreme ends of the spectrum. The transition from newbie to playing against high-levels is strangely abrupt, like going from kindergarden and straight to the assembly line. The exact same thing happened to me. I ended up buying a 7 day XP boost just to get to the point where I could use proper runes and masteries, and part of me wonders if they intentionally incorporated that inhospitable transition in order to encourage players to spend money; probably not, but it crossed my mind.

As for farming, the most important thing is to last-hit properly. Last hitting is when instead of just clicking on minions as soon as they arrive, you sort of stroll around until one is low enough that you can kill it in one hit. This serves two purposes:

1) When done properly, you can get a lot more kills this way. If you just stand there swinging a minion from full health to death, the odds of getting the killing blow are rather low, especially in the early levels when you hit for 50ish. A skilled last-hitter can get almost every kill in the creep wave.

2) It reduces the push from your side. You may think that getting to the opponent's tower is important, but until mid-game, it isn't. If you continuously hit the minions while your opponent only last-hits, your minions will push forward a lot faster and you will end up fighting under the enemy tower. This leaves you very vulnerable to ganks, makes it more difficult to get kills, and puts you far from the safety of your own tower.

Ideally, the minions should be fighting slightly outside the range of your tower. If they're too close, the tower will steal most of the kills. Two equally skilled last-hitters will cause the minions to fight roughly at the river mouth, leaving both sides on equal ground in terms of gank risk and escape routes.

The exception is when you can really push the **** out of the lane and overwhelm the opposition. A duo such as Alistar + Sivir can do this and reap the benefits of faster tower kills and more lane pressure. Pushing is how you win the game, after all, but unless you are particularly suited for it, you should wait until mid-game or opportunities such as everyone on the enemy team being dead.


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BamSucka

Senior Member

02-08-2010

Absalon - Thanks for the great insight, it all makes sense. Regarding matchmaking and "newbie island", if that is the case, how come I never get teamed up with lvl 30s and only groups in my level? Is it matching up your team based on the level you are currently on (since I am lvl 13, I get matched up with similar levels) and then pairing you against any other team that is available (usually level 30s)?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Absalon View Post
2) It reduces the push from your side. You may think that getting to the opponent's tower is important, but until mid-game, it isn't. If you continuously hit the minions while your opponent only last-hits, your minions will push forward a lot faster and you will end up fighting under the enemy tower. This leaves you very vulnerable to ganks, makes it more difficult to get kills, and puts you far from the safety of your own tower.
I've been trying that last hit thing, but maybe I am still too aggressive. I was under the impression that making the enemy "tower hug" is important because it reduces the amount of gold they can farm due to their own tower taking many of the "last hits"...I think I will try it your way now and not be concerned with that.

Thanks again!


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taconight

Senior Member

02-08-2010

you moved up and your elo is now going through the balancing phase i believe. I started off teh same way.

Got a teemo and just owned everything and then all the sudden i was losing like crazy. I averaged off. I went negative around 60 wins and 90 losses. I was still learning the game having never played dota or hon or LoL.

Maybe gangplank isnt for you, I would experiment with a ton of different champs at your level to find ones you like now. It hurts more later on when you want a new champ.

As for lane control. you are melee with ranged abilities which is kinda annoying for farming. When you are in a lane as gangplank (alot are taking mid lately) you want to time your last hits on creeps. Secondly, know your enemy champ abilities. If you are gangplank in a lane with a blitzcrank+annie or something you better just relax.

Also tower pushing as a non ranged early can be tricky its not to negate the enemy champs from gold but you are really exposing yourself to a gank from behind. If you are solo q'ing most likely it isnt going to be called out so you ahve to really watch your mini map.

When laning early levels unless you have a tower pushing team ie. sivir alistar combo or some variation , your best bet is to start off push if you are pushing hard stall, let them push back keep the battle in the middle so you can easily escape if **** hits the fan.

If you are the aggressive type etc, make sure your laning partner is communicating with you. Know your enemy abilities once out of newby island people set up combos.

An example, i main anivia i usually solo mid but when im not im usually letting my lane partner know if i mark this guy im gonna harass hard. I stun, frostbite or they stun followed by my stun etc.

all in all try to learn from your games now pay attention to what people do you'll find tons of tendencies and learn when your abilities are maximized.

btw, guides are good to understand certain things. Alot of guides even my current builds dont work good for some champs. Understand your champ as much as you can. Im just overly bored hope i helped.


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The Promise

Member

02-08-2010

I am just going to respond to the build you use, as everything else has already been hashed out here.
Base your item build off of the guides, but don't take them as a "do or die" kind of thing. I play a Cho so I have the joy of using one of Condon's guides, but I don't follow it to the letter, as I have found success with a bit of variation. Don't deviate too much, but don't be afraid to move around buy orders, or add a different item based on the game.


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BamSucka

Senior Member

02-08-2010

Thanks for the input, will get home and do some experimenting.


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Avloren

Senior Member

02-08-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by BamSucka View Post
I've been trying that last hit thing, but maybe I am still too aggressive. I was under the impression that making the enemy "tower hug" is important because it reduces the amount of gold they can farm due to their own tower taking many of the "last hits"...I think I will try it your way now and not be concerned with that.
It's difficult to know when to push and when to let them push; it depends a lot on your champion and your opponents' champions. Ideally, it's always good to be fighting just outside your tower's range. This way the tower isn't competing with you for last hits, and your enemies can't get any damage in on the tower, but you're close enough to it to escape to safety if you get ganked (and conversely, your enemies are far away from their own tower and easier to gank). Fighting actually within the tower's range is a mixed blessing, you're very difficult to kill and your enemies are easy to gank, but no matter how good your timing is the tower will steal last hits, and if your opponents have range they can get some damage in on the tower. This does add up, if they push hard enough without getting ganked you'll lose the tower early and be at a devastating disadvantage in laning. The reverse holds true; pushing away from your tower is dangerous, but if you can push all the way to the enemy tower, you're hurting their farming ability and possibly getting some damage in on their tower (but making them nearly impossible to gank and making yourself more vulnerable to it). Pushing and getting some damage in on the enemy tower is great, but if a third enemy shows up and gets a double kill because you've made yourself an easy gank by pushing too far, they can easily turn things around and kill your own tower while you're dead.

So pushing early is a calculated risk which can pay off, but it's not advisable with most champions, you're usually safer letting them push - but don't let them push too far, don't let them wear down your tower too fast or ruin your farming by letting the tower get the last hits. If they overextend take advantage of it by ganking, and be prepared for them to do the same if you push too far.

Of course it should go without saying that you control where the creeps fight by how much damage you do - if you just last hit, minimizing your own damage, your creeps will lose ground and bring the fight closer to your tower.. if you're constantly auto attacking and even using aoe abilities against the enemy creeps, you'll push towards the enemy tower.


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Siky

Senior Member

02-08-2010

To be honest, if you're doing what most people are doing and solo-queuing (finding normal games by yourself), get into understanding that you will lose some games because of the people you're matched with or against. The higher in the ELO you get, the more important team work and personalities get, if you're overly aggressive on a very passive or defensive team, you might end up feeding a lot and feeling worse.

As for farming, it's more than just last hitting like a lot of people say. If you're having trouble getting items that do damage (if you're playing a DPS character), it's not last hitting at the start that really matters. Last hitting in your lane matters for the first 1.5-2K gold, it doesn't matter after that. After that it's about taking the time to kill neutral creeps whenever you can't push in your lane anymore. A lot of the times once you knock down a tower in a lane, it makes farming in that lane pointlessly dangerous so you either have to switch lanes or start neutral farming. When you do that, you have to be sure to pay attention to your team, if you see an enemy, break off from neutral creeping, if you don't, you will find cases where you could have helped your team mate, but instead they died because you were off in your own little world trying to get that extra 40g while the opponent got 100+ from killing your team mate.

Last of all, concentrate on yourself, it's nice to try and test the waters if you're in a dual lane to see how good your partner is. If you die in a way where it seems like you could have won if your partner helped then it's a sign for you to stop being aggressive. If you died because of being stupid, you have to recognize that as well, but really, you have to be good at both aggressive and defensive play. Purely aggressive play will get you killed if your team blows.