Fiddlesticks, the fearful drainer

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Peled

Member

02-16-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by C0heed View Post
I don't mean to beat a dead horse... but I'd like to see video / screenshots of a drain build being effective VS a multi-disable team. Yea, your 30+ kills is impressive... until you look and see that Mummy is the only person on their team with an interrupt... how often does this happen?
Aight Ill try to get a screen shot. Hard to get a video considering I lagg and can only record short clips.


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C0heed

Senior Member

02-16-2010

Nowiser... I'm not trying to flame or troll. Fiddlesticks is my main as well and I'm looking to have a honest discussion about him. The purpose of these guides is to help players unfamiliar with the champion be successful with them. I"m only trying to shed light on what I believe to be pitfalls of this build. I'm not bashing the OP and encourage more people to write guides. However, I don't think I have to write a guide to question specific parts of it.


I think Drainfiddle is viable... but this guide doesn't talk about dealing with interrupts / silences. That's a very big deal when your main nuke is spell that must be CHANNELED. I'm simply stating that it's dangerous to have your main ability be something that is easily countered.

I said, "Dark Wind is a much more viable against 90% of all the possible team-make ups"

You said, "Saying something like that is stupid, there is no way you can prove that it is more viable against 90% of all possible team make-ups"

SO i'll elaborate... (90% was an exaggeration)

The following champions have 1 ability to interupt your MAIN NUKE... IE your main source of damage.

Ashe, Taric, Rammus, Poppy, Veigar, Anivia, Shaco, Jax, Sion, Morgana, Kassadin, Soraka, Singed, Janna, Eve, Tristana, Warwick, Blitzcrank, Amumu, Panth, Gragas, Malphite, Twisted Fate

The following Heros have 2 abilities to interrupt your main nuke.
Alistar , Fiddle sticks, Annie,

That makes 26 heroes out of the 44 total that have atleast one way to take away your main source of damage. So 59% of the heros if played correctly can neutralize the strongest focus of your character. So if 59% of champs can disable you... 41% can't.

These numbers aren't even close to breaking it down fully , but life drain already has an uphill battle because to be fully effective; you have to hope the champion in front of you is in the minority, and not the majority.

Life Drain IS one of the strongest 1v1 abilities... but it's situational. Again, i'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade... but I don't know how discussing various opinions (and expanding on them) makes me a troll.

I"m sorry that we disagree, I don't think that means we can't be civil though.
SO please someone show me the light and show how you play Drainsticks and deal with interrupts.


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TastyFresh

Platform Engineer

02-16-2010

All of Fiddle's abilities require specific situations to get the most out of them. Creating, recognizing, or seizing those situations is what matters with him.

Drain is powerful for jungling, and for small fights with no disables, and for dps if everything else is on cooldown.

Dark wind is powerful when several heroes are together, when you need to stay mobile, and against groups of anything in general. It is better than a lot of other champs' ults if it is only hitting enemy heroes. In a 5v5 with no creeps, Dark Wind alone is better than some champions' total offering.

Both are very powerful at what they do, but I find optimizing for and playing toward Dark Wind helps me win a lot more than going for Drain. I get 1 point in Drain early for jungling, and then don't touch it again until everything else I can get is maxed.


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CTHDRL

Senior Member

02-16-2010

Picking drain over Wind?????



I didn't know people still did that...


Dark wind is a borderline OP skill. Drain is useless because the guy you're draining and his friend can out DPS your drain; unless one of them is support. And even then they likely have CC of some kind to cancel you drain.




Drain is best used for jungling or for quick health regen on a cannon/neutral minion.




Quote:
Originally Posted by C0heed View Post
Nowiser... I'm not trying to flame or troll. Fiddlesticks is my main as well and I'm looking to have a honest discussion about him. The purpose of these guides is to help players unfamiliar with the champion be successful with them. I"m only trying to shed light on what I believe to be pitfalls of this build. I'm not bashing the OP and encourage more people to write guides. However, I don't think I have to write a guide to question specific parts of it.


I think Drainfiddle is viable... but this guide doesn't talk about dealing with interrupts / silences. That's a very big deal when your main nuke is spell that must be CHANNELED. I'm simply stating that it's dangerous to have your main ability be something that is easily countered.

I said, "Dark Wind is a much more viable against 90% of all the possible team-make ups"

You said, "Saying something like that is stupid, there is no way you can prove that it is more viable against 90% of all possible team make-ups"

SO i'll elaborate... (90% was an exaggeration)

The following champions have 1 ability to interupt your MAIN NUKE... IE your main source of damage.

Ashe, Taric, Rammus, Poppy, Veigar, Anivia, Shaco, Jax, Sion, Morgana, Kassadin, Soraka, Singed, Janna, Eve, Tristana, Warwick, Blitzcrank, Amumu, Panth, Gragas, Malphite, Twisted Fate

The following Heros have 2 abilities to interrupt your main nuke.
Alistar , Fiddle sticks, Annie,

That makes 26 heroes out of the 44 total that have atleast one way to take away your main source of damage. So 59% of the heros if played correctly can neutralize the strongest focus of your character. So if 59% of champs can disable you... 41% can't.

These numbers aren't even close to breaking it down fully , but life drain already has an uphill battle because to be fully effective; you have to hope the champion in front of you is in the minority, and not the majority.

Life Drain IS one of the strongest 1v1 abilities... but it's situational. Again, i'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade... but I don't know how discussing various opinions (and expanding on them) makes me a troll.

I"m sorry that we disagree, I don't think that means we can't be civil though.
SO please someone show me the light and show how you play Drainsticks and deal with interrupts.

And everyone has a summoner ability that makes your drain useless.

It's called flash.



A drain centered build is useless past a bottom-of-the-barrel Elo. I'm not trying to be a ****, it is simply true.

You can make a physical DPS Fiddle build; and against bad players it would be viable. But that doesn't mean it is realistically a good build.


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ObjectiveTruth

Senior Member

02-16-2010

I'm new to fiddlesticks and i've been reading this thread completely.

I think the OP is correct but i would rush for banshee's veil.

Everyone seems to agree that drain is absolutely amazing, excep if its interrupted. And fiddlesticks in general does not need alot of AP to be good.

If you can get banshee's veil by about lvl 6-8 ish, you should be in great shape with a drainfiddle. Then just gank your way to victory. Thoughts?


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Peled

Member

02-16-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by ObjectiveTruth View Post
I'm new to fiddlesticks and i've been reading this thread completely.

I think the OP is correct but i would rush for banshee's veil.

Everyone seems to agree that drain is absolutely amazing, excep if its interrupted. And fiddlesticks in general does not need alot of AP to be good.

If you can get banshee's veil by about lvl 6-8 ish, you should be in great shape with a drainfiddle. Then just gank your way to victory. Thoughts?
Pretty much what I do. But Ill do more testing with Dark Wind considering the replies to the guide. Ill try to record as much as I can to get total feedback, but I DO think you guys are thinking it is harder than it really is, the spells are only 13/12 seconds long (not including masteries and golem). YES there is timing involved, but it isn't hard to get used to. I do appreciate all the criticism, I should be able to get a couple videos out in 2 days on what all I did during testing and would apreciate more criticism on it.


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Necrax

Senior Member

02-17-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peled View Post
The chance to find 2 people next to each other without creeps around is rare. Drain is more stable. The only true reason people get it is to farm creeps.
even though drain/terrify fiddle is good and common, this above statement is not true. let alone the way you claim to know the absolute truth about why people get it at all.

dark wind is an awesome harassing tool if you time it well during the laning phase...it's just awesome. it's also an awesome mass disabler in team fights.

terrify range is horrible and it's exceptionally easy to avoid it during the laning phase especially if you noticed the opposing fiddle didn't get dark wind. no doubt, it's a great combo to let off but even in team fights i prefer crowstorm + dark wind + fear + minor drain over crowstorm + fear + major drain. silence is just too good.

it's awesome...nothing more to add actually.

EDIT: i'm just referring to this statement, not your guide as a whole. the guide is solid and i've seen a whole lotta good drain/terrify fiddles.


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Grovel

Senior Member

02-17-2010

Dear OP,

I hate you. My buddy has decided to main Fiddle and he INSISTS on running a drain build. Dumb basterd thinks drain-tanking Cho' is a good idea and I get yelled at for running away when he does it.

"Get Darkwind. It farms, it harasses, it silences, it's nasty." I say.
"No bro, I get so many kills for my Mejai's draining idiots." He says.
"Nice Ultimate, everyone just ran away from you because you MAXED DRAIN!." I say.

Fiddles is one of the ultimate team players and drain just seems like a silly 1v1 gimmick to me.


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GuyArcher79

Junior Member

02-17-2010

Drain is the last spell I max out but one of the first spells I pick up. It's nice for jungling and I've occasionally gotten off a first blood with it early if I have the right lane partner. I've had much better luck with the random hitting nature of Dark Wind though. Besides the silence and minion kills, it's great for lane harassment. It only takes a few hits for an opponent to realize that they can't be in the middle of the minion pack and need to stand pretty far back or risk even more hits . If I have a good lane partner, I find that we often can keep them standing back at their tower while we clean up the minions and let their tower deny them gold from last hits. Dark Wind is the first spell I max out.


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Peled

Member

02-17-2010

Aight thanks for the criticism, currently testing Dark Wind... Not liking it so far but recorded some clips for feedback. Should be out in 2 days. If you guys have any reccomended specific item/skill order build for me to test, I would appreciate if you would tell it.