@Riot: In Attempting to Destroy Lane Passivity...

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Darmikau

Senior Member

03-10-2011

#1) Stop with regeneration lane passives. I know that champions are in the pipeline for a very long time, but that certainly doesn't mean their abilities can't be tweaked further down the line. Similarly, if the regeneration is an essential part of the champions kit there are certainly ways to do it without contributing to laning passivity. And let's face it, many of these abilities are strictly designed for lane regeneration: hardly any of them are bursty and are far more useful for lane healing.

For example...

Nocture: Heals himself on auto-attacks every 10 seconds. Not substantial for teamfights.

Maokai: Passive heals him for 7% of his health when he auto attacks after 5 spells have been cast near him. Potentially substantial in team fights, but because it's regeneration and not healing, it's automatically biased to laning phase preference.

Renekton: Heals through cull the meek, healing which is not substantial outside laning phase except in very small skirmishes.

Vladimir: What the F***?

So Vladimir is a bit of an extreme example, but you get the idea. A lot of champions in the game have innate or skill passives that give regeneration which is generally only useful in the lane. Basically it comes down to the fact that even if these skills aren't passivity problems themselves, they contribute to passivity on the whole. Also, they're not that interesting. Stuff like Headshot and Martial Cadence provide interesting champion interactions that go beyond simple regeneration.



2) I'm not sure about your stance on this, but level-up healing is still a big problem. I don't think there's a single person in the game who hasn't lost multiple kills because right as a killing blow goes off the enemy champion levels up, just barely managing to escape. The problem I see with this is twofold: Not only does it contribute to lane passivity, there's no reward involved for either players. The attacking player is denied a kill because the defending player just happened to level up, which is almost always exceedingly frustrating. The defending player also has a very diminished "clutch" feeling: there's no skill involved in it. Surviving by a level up is nice and makes you feel good for about a second, but beyond that it's a 99% random event with absolutely no skill involved on the defending player's part, and I doubt there are many players that can attest to setting themselves up for a level up at the exact right moment so they wouldn't die. Basically you're trading a tiny high and kill denial (passivity) for extreme frustration. I hate to use the term, but that's about as anti-fun as it gets.

The previous change to this was a step in the right direction, but it needs to go further, perhaps to a 0-100% system where champions that are at, say, 5% health when the killing blow comes for them only gain 5% normal health upon leveling up. Naturally this would have serious implications for junglers, but it's not within my capability of assessing these ramifications, other than I know it would satiate Guinsoo's previous statement about keeping non-junglers out of the jungle. That I leave to the opinions of Riot.


Just my two cents. Nobody has really seemed to bring these points up. The extent to which I believe in these arguments isn't a matter of point, but rather that I haven't seen Riot comment on these specific issues.


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Darmikau

Senior Member

03-10-2011

\(._o)/


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A Wild Missingno

Senior Member

03-10-2011

http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board....php?p=5819670

Darm, I was almost done writing a long response to your post when Windows 7 decided my computer had to restart and install updates. I had no choice in the matter, it was very weird, and very rude. I'm out of time now, so I have to give you a quick response:

Regeneration does not encourage lane passivity. In fact, it encourages aggression in many instances. If you create a scarcity of health and mana, people will play more cautiously. It will also make Regrowth/Meki pendant a must have. You'll see everyone getting Philosopher's Stones as their first item. Not fun, and actually a terrible idea. The way many support characters get their gold is through this and other gold-per-ten items. This allows them to give up last hits to their laning partner. Edit (got back home): Giving most champs a gold/5 item increases overall item quality which hurts support viability.

I have only once, in my nearly 600 games, been robbed of a kill due to regeneration from a level up. It was because they had a catalyst, and I was actually tower-diving them. I was a sad panda.

Regeneration only encourages passivity if you have little to no burst damage..

Level ups *are* easy to predict during the initial laning phase. Once you start switching lanes it becomes more difficult. It is still not a problem, and it is not 99% random: More like 10%.

Sorry for the authoritative tone in my response, but I simply must be quick to get my points across to you and can't afford time for tact or organization. Hope this helps.


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Skwid1g

Senior Member

03-10-2011

If I die fast or can't regen I'm not going to risk fighting. Ensign is correct.


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psikoticsilver

Senior Member

03-10-2011

http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board...=571915&page=3

I should have included lifesteal/spellvamp in my thread as well, but be prepared to be downvoted into oblivion for your opinion. The melee/dps crowd are still out in force and are going strong from their success in not only nerfing everyone else's ability to heal, but nerfing their best counter (exhaust).


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Rynac

Senior Member

03-10-2011

I agree with you on the gaining health when leveling, especially when you put a DoT on them that would kill them but then they end up leveling and living.


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PriorityOne

Senior Member

03-10-2011

Melee champions need some kind of HP regen.

Otherwise they auto-lose the lane versus any ranged characters.


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Doriantv

Member

03-10-2011

Levelups in laning are easy to predict just by looking at your own levels. Also, you're seeing a problem that doesn't exist, levelup HP is barely noticeable for me.

Also, nerfs to lane sustain only serve as indirect buffs to strong laners like Caitlyn, Zilean, and Teemo. Which is the last thing we need.


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Rynac

Senior Member

03-10-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocketball View Post
Levelups in laning are easy to predict just by looking at your own levels.
Not really. What if you force someone to b or kill someone? It is completely different then.


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CrimsonRipper

Senior Member

03-10-2011

I believe they made level up HP and mana less severe about a month or two ago didn't they?

The system now is when they're low they get less HP on level up, so get them low and they won't have as much HP when they lvl. If they're not then expect them to get back to near-full quickly.


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