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Shaco guide by a 1700+ player

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ViSiOnInG

Senior Member

04-09-2011

you do understand that jungling.... does not mean you neutral creep all game right? . . . . especially when you play shaco... ESPECIALLY... my playstyle. I get both buffs and instantly go gank.... or counter-jungle. and to be honest, I probably spend too much time ganking/counterjungling and has backfired in many games(especially in higher elo, where people will play a lot more safe).

The benefits of wriggles benefit your team more. think about the cost-effectiveness of the item. you spend 75 more gold and get a infinite ward every three minutes. lets say you get it at 10 minutes, and the game lasts 40. you have just gotten 750 gold worth of wards(which is almost enough for another madreds razor). Not only that, but those wards you have placed all game may have GOTTEN your team more gold, from kills or SAVED them from dying. or helped steal buffs, or anything really... its just a really good item zz.

I'm not trying to insult you, it just doesn't make sense how you are trying to tell me smite is bad, wriggles is bad etc. Because I obviously am better/more experienced than you, and thats not an insult. its a fact. I'm not trying to be your friend. I'm trying to help players get better. You gave your thoughts, I told you why they were wrong. You can choose to listen to me, or keep doing **** the wrong way. I don't care about sounding credible, my elo and shaco record gives me enough credit.


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ViSiOnInG

Senior Member

04-10-2011

hope i win the guide contest.... gotta buy me some skinssss.


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SabbathViper

Senior Member

04-10-2011

Your guide lacks videos and examples of play like some other guides on there have. There's a recent one that is good, he posted on the Shaco forum. Good luck though.


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ViSiOnInG

Senior Member

04-11-2011

yeah it does haha. Hopefully my content makes up for it = (. thanks though heh


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Mick the Quick

Member

04-11-2011

Just wanted to pass along that I've been trying out your guide and really enjoy it, very much appreciate your hard work in helping us out with Shaco.

Also wanted to ask, how do you feel the new wriggles nerf is going to affect your build? Would going straight for the bloodrazor with getting a vamp scepter in there somewhere work out? Or will you continue to get wriggles?


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ViSiOnInG

Senior Member

04-11-2011

thanks for the support ! hope its working well for you.

I feel that the wriggles nerf won't affect shaco or any jungler that much, the main reason they nerfed it was to stop the teemo non stop pushing, never have to leave lane problem. Where you couldn't out harrass/burst how much lifesteal he(or any range dps) would gain from the madred procs.

Where as a jungler doesn't really get harrassed or bursted by neutrals - -; , and the increased lifesteal should be sufficient for jungling. It may make dragon a little bit harder which is unfortunate, and I could have lived without the cost increase, but it is still one of the most cost-efficient items in the game. Free wards ftw.


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mistermoo

Senior Member

04-11-2011

Quote:
iHarlequin:
True. I don't conceal the fact that the jungling I do with Shaco is a partial one, at most. This, due to the fact that a 4/5 stack of JitB gets you the golem buff quickly enough, move on to the neutral minions and then take red lizard. I don't maintain a constant vigil of the jungle (I do ward Baron and Dragon when appropriate, of course), I use it to get an early XP advantage for me and a teammate, and to enhance any gank attempts with the buffs.

I fully comprehend that if you want to play Shaco with jungling as his primary function, smite is a must -- as is with any champion you decide to jungle with. I, however, forfeit this complete dominance of the neutral camps to gain an advantage in direct PvP. I'm not saying it's worth it (it has, however, worked for me so far), I'm saying it's how I play Shaco (stacking JitBs is the only way (or one of the few) to overcome a need for an early smite, as far as I'm concerned). Too much killing potential to occupy a summoner spell with Smite.


Shaco is arguably the best jungler in the game. If you want to take his awesome jungling capability and forfeit it in favor of trying to scratch what little you can from Shaco's mediocre laning capabilities, go right ahead. That's why you're not as good as the OP.


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Skafferen

Recruiter

04-11-2011

@Visioning. Ive had some problems counter jungling; example;
I come out from your usual path at round 3:15 (lim on bot team) with red+blue and try to gank anivia in mid while my karthus isnt responding fast enough. Anivia pops flash and i only get to shiv her, but i take no damage. I then continue towards their red to see if WW is there. He isnt so im expecting him to either be at golems or to come soon at red. I then deceive past wall onto golems. He is not there so i start stealing them. BUT then the **** hits the fan. He comes at me skipping the red and im at 3/4 hp he is at 1/2, so i start wacking at him, but he outperforms me since the golems are both hitting me.
I then deceive towards top lane to place JitB and hopefully kill WW, (remember i have red he doesnt). But then morde comes to the top brush (adjacent to Baron). And he and WW kill me together, my toplaner shen dont get there in time.

Was I unlucky or should i have withdrawn before? Or placed wards at red instead of trying to steal golems? Any advise?


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ViSiOnInG

Senior Member

04-12-2011

Quote:
Skafferen:
@Visioning. Ive had some problems counter jungling; example;
I come out from your usual path at round 3:15 (lim on bot team) with red+blue and try to gank anivia in mid while my karthus isnt responding fast enough. Anivia pops flash and i only get to shiv her, but i take no damage. I then continue towards their red to see if WW is there. He isnt so im expecting him to either be at golems or to come soon at red. I then deceive past wall onto golems. He is not there so i start stealing them. BUT then the **** hits the fan. He comes at me skipping the red and im at 3/4 hp he is at 1/2, so i start wacking at him, but he outperforms me since the golems are both hitting me.
I then deceive towards top lane to place JitB and hopefully kill WW, (remember i have red he doesnt). But then morde comes to the top brush (adjacent to Baron). And he and WW kill me together, my toplaner shen dont get there in time.

Was I unlucky or should i have withdrawn before? Or placed wards at red instead of trying to steal golems? Any advise?


Ganking mid to pop summoners is still effective. You don't necessarily have to go to counter-jungle after. A character like Anivia is very weak to ganks because she has no escape spells and her slow/wall is not leveled until later. have you tried making people use their summoner spells, then trying to gank again shortly after?

If I were in your situation at their double golems and wanted to steal it, I would have waited for my smite to be up, and place 1-2 jitb in the brush above golems. This will allow you to bait WW to the boxes if he comes while you are doing golems. Counter-jungling is a very tricky strategy to learn and you are often reliant on your team to react quickly. You really have to able to judge situations very quickly, like if your top lane was pushed far towards your tower, there is no way shen can help you before morde gets there. It is important to be aware of when incoming enemies are coming for you. You had a chance to deceive away after encountering WW, but weren't aware that morde was nearby. You could have simply smited one of his golems, and ran away. Stealing WW's jungle XP as well as wasting Mordekaisers time (lose some xp or cs). You could have deceived DOWN, back to red, start planting some jitbs in the brush, and see if WW would facecheck his red buff after(likely).

On another note. You 100% should have attempted to gank morde after the anivia gank attempt. Morde HAS to push his lane in order to keep his shield up/survive in lane. and he has 0 slow/stuns and will usually carry ghost/ignite. With red buff, and your ghost AND a CC(shen) it should be gaurantee kill.

Shaco just takes a lot of judgement and quick analyzing of situations. He is definitely one of the hardest champions to play well, in LoL. Mainly because he has extreme risk-reward, being able to take consistently do well requires experience. There have been many games where I have over-committed to counter-jungling and get killed, or get under-leveled and fail miserably =\ , you're bound to have some off games with any champion, Shaco especially.


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Skafferen

Recruiter

04-12-2011

ok thanks for your advise, on a side note i did get to own that WW later on. Wits end owned him so bad cus he could not use hungering strikes on me with clone and me eating his mana.
We did lose the game thou because their panth had two succesful backdoors.
Will try again soon. Practise makes master:=)