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Shaco guide by a 1700+ player

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ViSiOnInG

Senior Member

04-08-2011

Quote:
iHarlequin:
Interesting guide, though there are some things I disagree about:

1) Smite. I'm against taking a summoner spell that will help you for up to level 6. I've used it several times on my Shaco, and whilst it's great for jungling, it is useless mid-to-late game. Getting another summoner spell can be better, even early-game, allowing you to get easy kills or avoiding deaths.

2) Wriggle's Lantern. If you're struggling with your health, get a Vampiric Scepter -- it doesn't become as useless as Wriggle's late-game, since you can transform it into a Bloodthirster -- whereas the Lantern just becomes inventory-fodder later on. Even its ward, which does help, isn't that useful when you think that you can just place a JitB, that lasts 1:30 minutes.

3) Ignite. It's very useful, even late-game: a true damage, 410 nuke is nothing to joke about. Early-game, it's even better, and will get you those kills while your Shiv is on the cooldown.

4) Ghostblade vs. Infinity Edge. This boils down to the type of Shaco I build, which basically exploits the +20% backstab damage, added to the 120% damage from coming out of Deceive (and its auto-crit), with Trinity's Force 150% increase in damage and the critical damage runes, which when surmounted with the Infinity's Edge increment of base crit. damage to 250%, can you lead you to something bordering 400+~% with a critical.

Other than that, the guide is very solid, and your reasons may be better than my own. I just say this because the way I play Shaco is different. The tips are great, good job.


Hey thanks for checking out my guide, hmm interesting thoughts. hereee are mine lol :S

1) Yeah this is by far 100% wrong. No matter what every jungler needs to have smite, no questions asked. Smite is essential ALL game. Not only does it make your jungling extremely quick it is NEEDED to secure baron and dragons throughtout the WHOLE game. Think about If you were against another shaco who has smite and you don't. Who do you think is going to gank faster? level faster? dragon faster? It is just absolutely necessary to take smite as a jungler. Ask any single person above 1500 elo. If you don't take Smite as a jungler, you are <1200 elo.

2)Wriggles is the most cost-effective item in the game. Thats why they are nerfing it AND raising the cost next patch. and it will STILL be good. also wards are better than jitbs.... because they last longer and are invisible, and can't be "popped" and offer 10x the vision.

3) Yeah ignite can be good, but it's really only good getting early kills in the beginning. assuming you take smite(no smite is ******ed) + ignite you won't have ghost. Sometimes ghost can be more effective in getting kills, and lets say you were ganking bot, the effectiveness of ghost can help kill TWO people, rather than just one. Ghost is useful all game and helps you push safely because you can ghost and deceive away. Out of all the summoner spells, ghost is the most useful.

4) IE can be good if you plan on going attack damage and max deceive 1st or 2nd, but the problem with buying infinity edge as your first item is that it takes a really long time to build. Shaco's main strength is his early game, before large team fights happen. If you are spending all that time trying to build a huge item you really don't benefit from his early game. While ghost blade is a cheap item that boosts early game damage a ton. Brutalizer is one of the best mid game items for any AD champion and the active on ghostblade is really good when you are stronger than everyone else.

Honestly If you want to play shaco well, you need smite. Not having smite is really just ******ed, how do you even jungle? can you even get both buffs before 6 minutes? because I can get level 3 with both buffs at 3:15 with smite. And If I were against you I'd be in your jungle killing you while you are level 2 at 3:30. And If you don't have ghost or red buff I really wonder who's going to win.

Anyways, you should try out other strategies, there's a reason I'm 1600+ and you're unranked. And 1600 isn't even good, If my computer didn't die i'd be 2k+, or actually if you just look at my shaco stats I'm 2k+. 500+ games 60% win rate. and actually Playing against decent players, not 700 elos.


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WdBlazer

Member

04-09-2011

Smite is absolute important, the other day I tried ghost/exhuast without smite, it delay the jungling and it affect my ganking timing quite abit. I also use smite to counter jungle the other team jungler, together with the ward I got from lantern. Thats what I felt about using shaco as a jungler.

"Anyways, you should try out other strategies, there's a reason I'm 1600+ and you're unranked." not really a nice way to put your point across lolz.


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ViSiOnInG

Senior Member

04-09-2011

it wasnt really intended to be offensive. Just a statement. It doesn't really make sense to be critical of someone who is clearly more experienced/better rated than you. That's like me going to Hotshot and telling him how to play nidalee.


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iHarlequin

Senior Member

04-09-2011

Quote:
ViSiOnInG:
it wasnt really intended to be offensive. Just a statement. It doesn't really make sense to be critical of someone who is clearly more experienced/better rated than you. That's like me going to Hotshot and telling him how to play nidalee.


You're seriously comparing yourself to Hotshot? I'm not saying you're bad, but I've never seen you play: Hotshot? If you youtube League of Legends and play a couple of videos, you're bound to see him playing. Massive ego.

I think relying on Wriggle's is a bad bet considering what it's going to turn into. I manage to get both buffs around the time mid gets to level six, without smite. Smite helps, and I always take it when I'm going against pre-made (hey, guess what LoL pro: before LoL, there was DotA, and I played that game for more than four years, so swallow your pride and don't think that someone who just started LoL is bad at the game type), since most teams ward important neutrals and attempt steals. With ignite, you're sure to get a safe Blue buff, since the other team will be assuming you're not bothering with the jungle: stack four boxes, throw an extra one when they die: the golem dies just as fast.

But, whatever. The guide is yours. You have your history in ranked, I have mine in non-ranked (given I can't even play ranked, yet). I'm sure both vouch for theirselves, and yours is more credible. I'm sure Smite is a necessity in ranked high-elo; just don't make assumptions about people you have no clue about.


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SabbathViper

Senior Member

04-09-2011

Quote:
iHarlequin:
You're seriously comparing yourself to Hotshot? I'm not saying you're bad, but I've never seen you play: Hotshot? If you youtube League of Legends and play a couple of videos, you're bound to see him playing. Massive ego.

I think relying on Wriggle's is a bad bet considering what it's going to turn into. I manage to get both buffs around the time mid gets to level six, without smite. Smite helps, and I always take it when I'm going against pre-made (hey, guess what LoL pro: before LoL, there was DotA, and I played that game for more than four years, so swallow your pride and don't think that someone who just started LoL is bad at the game type), since most teams ward important neutrals and attempt steals. With ignite, you're sure to get a safe Blue buff, since the other team will be assuming you're not bothering with the jungle: stack four boxes, throw an extra one when they die: the golem dies just as fast.

But, whatever. The guide is yours. You have your history in ranked, I have mine in non-ranked (given I can't even play ranked, yet). I'm sure both vouch for theirselves, and yours is more credible. I'm sure Smite is a necessity in ranked high-elo; just don't make assumptions about people you have no clue about.


You'll learn in time that Smite is required for any serious jungler. You think that jungling means "Two solo lanes of exp" but don't understand how deep it goes. If you get both buffs by the time mid hits 6, you're doing terribad. You can have both buffs by 3:30 with smite. What happens when you're trying to get your buff, and the enemy jungler with smite (who threw a ward at one of your needed buffs) comes by and yoinks it from you? Nothing, that's what. Probably die, in fact.

It's not about needing it to kill the monster. It's about buff security, dragon security, and speeding up your jungle times.


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ViSiOnInG

Senior Member

04-09-2011

Quote:
iHarlequin:
You're seriously comparing yourself to Hotshot? I'm not saying you're bad, but I've never seen you play: Hotshot? If you youtube League of Legends and play a couple of videos, you're bound to see him playing. Massive ego.

I think relying on Wriggle's is a bad bet considering what it's going to turn into. I manage to get both buffs around the time mid gets to level six, without smite. Smite helps, and I always take it when I'm going against pre-made (hey, guess what LoL pro: before LoL, there was DotA, and I played that game for more than four years, so swallow your pride and don't think that someone who just started LoL is bad at the game type), since most teams ward important neutrals and attempt steals. With ignite, you're sure to get a safe Blue buff, since the other team will be assuming you're not bothering with the jungle: stack four boxes, throw an extra one when they die: the golem dies just as fast.

But, whatever. The guide is yours. You have your history in ranked, I have mine in non-ranked (given I can't even play ranked, yet). I'm sure both vouch for theirselves, and yours is more credible. I'm sure Smite is a necessity in ranked high-elo; just don't make assumptions about people you have no clue about.


LMAO WHO ARE YOU? I've played with hotshot, i've played with reginald, i've played with saint, jiji, loco, ETC. You don't even play ranked, and arent even level 30? I have no idea why you are being so vocal about your incorrect opinions. and hey guess what I played Dota competitively before I played LoL, good for you. pretty sure you're bad at that game too lawls.

"stack four boxes, throw an extra one when they die: the golem dies just as fast"
In my route I don't even use smite on golem, so yes thats correct. hey btu guess what when you are done golem, I AM done golem AND wolves. and 20 seconds later I'm going to have red buff. and then im going to **** on you and your team.

do you know theres a summoner spell called clairvoyance? You know they can cast it on your blue buff and see you stacking ur jitbs there (since you dont have smite they wont think you are jungling?) What happens when they break those boxes? can you still jungle at ALL without smite? When will you get your buffs now? level 10? rofls.

I get both buffs when solo lanes are level 3. kthx. I get 2nd round of buffs when solo lanes are 6/7 LOL. And do you even know what a dragon is? do you know what baron is? Did you know that smite deals the MOST damage to these big objectives? meaning you can use it to last hit them, and steal them from enemies?

please tell riot, and the entire high elo community about your thoughts on wriggles, because obviously you are correct. they should probably not nerf it and increase the cost because its obviously a terrible item.

you just contradict yourself all day.
"since most teams ward important neutrals and attempt steals"
SO IGNITE WOULD BE BETTER THAN SMITE in that situation? what the ****. I'm not even sure if you're trolling me or you actually think that makes any sense at all.

YOU DONT EVEN MAKE SENSE.
"I'm sure Smite is a necessity in ranked high-elo; just don't make assumptions about people you have no clue about"
So you are ****ing agreeing with me? THEN WHAT ARE U COMPLAINING ABOUT? I made assumptions about you? no, I looked up your ****ing name in solo queue ladder, and guess what you're unranked.

K bottom line. I have more experience than you, don't you think I know more? Maybe you will become a great player when you get more experience, but probably not if you don't listen to people who DO have experience. lmao... I kind of wish you were trolling me, because you really make no sense at all, contradict yourself all day and really have no valid points. kbai


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iHarlequin

Senior Member

04-09-2011

Quote:
SabbathViper:
You'll learn in time that Smite is required for any serious jungler. You think that jungling means "Two solo lanes of exp" but don't understand how deep it goes. If you get both buffs by the time mid hits 6, you're doing terribad. You can have both buffs by 3:30 with smite. What happens when you're trying to get your buff, and the enemy jungler with smite (who threw a ward at one of your needed buffs) comes by and yoinks it from you? Nothing, that's what. Probably die, in fact.

It's not about needing it to kill the monster. It's about buff security, dragon security, and speeding up your jungle times.


True. I don't conceal the fact that the jungling I do with Shaco is a partial one, at most. This, due to the fact that a 4/5 stack of JitB gets you the golem buff quickly enough, move on to the neutral minions and then take red lizard. I don't maintain a constant vigil of the jungle (I do ward Baron and Dragon when appropriate, of course), I use it to get an early XP advantage for me and a teammate, and to enhance any gank attempts with the buffs.

I fully comprehend that if you want to play Shaco with jungling as his primary function, smite is a must -- as is with any champion you decide to jungle with. I, however, forfeit this complete dominance of the neutral camps to gain an advantage in direct PvP. I'm not saying it's worth it (it has, however, worked for me so far), I'm saying it's how I play Shaco (stacking JitBs is the only way (or one of the few) to overcome a need for an early smite, as far as I'm concerned). Too much killing potential to occupy a summoner spell with Smite.


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iHarlequin

Senior Member

04-09-2011

Quote:
ViSiOnInG:
LMAO WHO ARE YOU? I've played with hotshot, i've played with reginald, i've played with saint, jiji, loco, ETC. You don't even play ranked, and arent even level 30? I have no idea why you are being so vocal about your incorrect opinions. and hey guess what I played Dota competitively before I played LoL, good for you. pretty sure you're bad at that game too lawls.

"stack four boxes, throw an extra one when they die: the golem dies just as fast"
In my route I don't even use smite on golem, so yes thats correct. hey btu guess what when you are done golem, I AM done golem AND wolves. and 20 seconds later I'm going to have red buff. and then im going to **** on you and your team.

do you know theres a summoner spell called clairvoyance? You know they can cast it on your blue buff and see you stacking ur jitbs there (since you dont have smite they wont think you are jungling?) What happens when they break those boxes? can you still jungle at ALL without smite? When will you get your buffs now? level 10? rofls.

I get both buffs when solo lanes are level 3. kthx. I get 2nd round of buffs when solo lanes are 6/7 LOL. And do you even know what a dragon is? do you know what baron is? Did you know that smite deals the MOST damage to these big objectives? meaning you can use it to last hit them, and steal them from enemies?

please tell riot, and the entire high elo community about your thoughts on wriggles, because obviously you are correct. they should probably not nerf it and increase the cost because its obviously a terrible item.

you just contradict yourself all day.
"since most teams ward important neutrals and attempt steals"
SO IGNITE WOULD BE BETTER THAN SMITE in that situation? what the ****. I'm not even sure if you're trolling me or you actually think that makes any sense at all.

YOU DONT EVEN MAKE SENSE.
"I'm sure Smite is a necessity in ranked high-elo; just don't make assumptions about people you have no clue about"
So you are ****ing agreeing with me? THEN WHAT ARE U COMPLAINING ABOUT? I made assumptions about you? no, I looked up your ****ing name in solo queue ladder, and guess what you're unranked.

K bottom line. I have more experience than you, don't you think I know more? Maybe you will become a great player when you get more experience, but probably not if you don't listen to people who DO have experience. lmao... I kind of wish you were trolling me, because you really make no sense at all, contradict yourself all day and really have no valid points. kbai


Good job diminishing yourself by making a post that is more about ad hominem than actually proving a case. I never even ****ing said the way you were doing it was wrong, I just said I did it differently: do I have to agree with the almighty Shaco god, or not play Shaco at all?

I'm not complaining about anything, not everything is white or black: I don't like taking smite with Shaco, I don't jungle him throughout the whole game, I help lane/start ganking relatively early. I don't really care about your assumptions concerning my skill or lack thereof in DotA/LoL to give them an extensive reply.

You should stick to making a guide on a website that doesn't allow commentaries if you don't want people exposing their opinions instead of just "+1". Great guide, annoying as **** writer.


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ViSiOnInG

Senior Member

04-09-2011

K well, the way you are doing it is wrong. I'm simply explaining to you why its wrong, and your responses further prove the point that you are wrong... which I don't understand. Hey you can play Shaco all you want.

And yes not everything is black and white in the game. But probably one of the few things that is 100% essential is a jungler needs to take smite.

My guide was written to make Shaco players better, If you try my strategies I'm sure you will become a better shaco. If you don't want to then I dont care.

also... hey If you don't believe me, heres me ****ting on high elo from one of regi's steams.

http://solomid.net/videoplayer.php?v=69

he ks's me all day and carries. but I **** on the jungle tryndamere, killed him before he did red (got regi FB), STOLE his red. and put their jungler at a huge disadvantage. pretty much making the game 4v5 early on, essentially winning the game. I WONDER IF I COULD HAVE DONE that without smite? actually no I don't, without smite it wouldn't have happened.


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iHarlequin

Senior Member

04-09-2011

Quote:
ViSiOnInG:
K well, the way you are doing it is wrong. I'm simply explaining to you why its wrong, and your responses further prove the point that you are wrong... which I don't understand. Hey you can play Shaco all you want.

And yes not everything is black and white in the game. But probably one of the few things that is 100% essential is a jungler needs to take smite.

My guide was written to make Shaco players better, If you try my strategies I'm sure you will become a better shaco. If you don't want to then I dont care.

also... hey If you don't believe me, heres me ****ting on high elo from one of regi's steams.

http://solomid.net/videoplayer.php?v=69

he ks's me all day and carries. but I **** on the jungle tryndamere, killed him before he did red (got regi FB), STOLE his red. and put their jungler at a huge disadvantage. pretty much making the game 4v5 early on, essentially winning the game. I WONDER IF I COULD HAVE DONE that without smite? actually no I don't, without smite it wouldn't have happened.


No, I don't doubt you. It's much more a matter of how I play Shaco, not which way is the best. I exposed my ideas about Shaco, in general, not jungling. I dislike doing jungling until latter stages of the game; I'd rather get the buffs when necessary and then helping the team where needed. But that's how I play Shaco. I disagree with you as my build being wrong: Shaco is a great jungler, and laning with him is a waste, but that doesn't mean you need to tuck yourself in the jungle for all early-game (I'm not saying that this isn't the best method, I'm just saying it's not mine, and it's certainly not the only viable one).

Your Shaco build is very similar to what I used (my jungling Shaco build, with Smite, prioritized getting a Madred's Bloodrazor, so I ended up giving up on Wriggle's and picking up a Vampiric Scepter + 2 Wards), so I know it is good, and is better for maintaining neutral minions dominance.

I'll get to watching the video later, don't really have the time for it now.

Try to be less directly insulting when you're trying to get a point made, or educate someone about something. It sure doesn't help if you're calling them stupid and spamming "lol" across your post, it just makes you sound less credible.