AP Nidalee , pls help

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NDAWE

Senior Member

02-06-2010

Hi , i`m new with Nidalee (around 30 games only) , and for 25 of them i used AD build. I`m very delighted from it (tnx to flankd guide btw u can check it if u r interested of AD), but also very curious for AP builds. Just want to make my self competition between this 2 types.

Ppls says - AP dont scale good with Nidalee. In 1st look thats true :

Nidalee-The Bestial Huntress
Javelin Toss 0.4
Bushwhack 0.4
Primal Surge 0.8
Pounce 0.4
Swipe 0.2

But they forgot :

A) Javelin Toss cap 250% bonus in high range (almost everytime when i trow a javelin is on the edge of range) and this make that 0.4 a lot more
B) Bushwhack also get 0.4 but do the dmg OVER 2 sec. (in trascription or atleast i understand it - every second do the skill dmg) and in to the end can be calculated like 2x0.4 / Please if this is wrong someone to repair my mistake.
C) Heal scale pretty good imo.

Its true that in cougar form skills got really low benefit, but its better than nothink.

That make AP Nidalee no so bad, even with rylay u got slow. I was thinking for pure AP DD Nidalee:

Saphyre +2 HP pots
Sheen + Boots
Sorcs boots
Rylay's scept
Soulstealer (probably is better to take that before rylay, but its seems that rylay's slow help A LOT)
Upgrade Sheen to Lichbane.

Last 2 items can be a lot : Archangel + Veil , or Zhonya's Ring + Arch , Void Staff + somethink.

I`m not sure about that items build , havent tryed it yet but seems good to me. Any suggestions are welcome (please give me also reason why u suggest something).
I`m most curious what playstyle got AP Nidalee. Nonstop trowing javelins , healing and bushwahk , staying in human form mainly ? Cougar only when fleeing , move from one to other location , and rare chasing ? Or because of lichbane cougar skills got big benefit for takedown so from there comes your DMG ?


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Sinistral

Senior Member

02-06-2010

As someone who mains Nidalee, lemme share some of my experience.

You got pretty much the build I use, except I have a few differences and a few tips for you depending on how the game progresses and your opponents:

Start out with Sapphire and pots of your choice. Finish Sheen and start on boots. Personally I am gay for Boots of Mobility for her. It gives her beyond awesome map control.

Build Rylai's. You probably never have enough to finish it in one or two goes. Get both AP items if the other team isn't doing that great, or you are confident about your mobility. Get one AP item + Belt in general works the best, the extra HP is more then welcome mid game.

From here I usually have enough gold to get 2 Blasting Wands. If the enemy team is magic heavy, you might wanna finish your Sheen into Lich Bane. Else I usually build up to Zylom's. This makes you an amazing healer and increases your damage output (needless to say).

Should the opposing team have high MR or stacking items that provide MR, build a Void Staff. I've had only few games that I really had to.

Usually by the time you finish either Zylom's or Lich the game is 90% over, so where you go from there is up to you.

Soul Stealer is NOT worth it, not under any circumstance. Eve or Veigar ar so much better for it. Yes you will be racking up kills, but the utility gained from Rylai's, you'd be gimping yourself and your team. If you start building SS -after- Rylai's you're usually at about 65% of a game, which is too late, straight AP items are better then.

As for your runes:

Red: Magic Penetration
Yellow: MP/5
Blue: AP/level or CD Flat
Quints: Flat HP

To awsner a question: you are right about the Bushwhack. The Cougar AP/ratio is rather low, I believe 0.3 or 0.4 but you get a low CD as a trade-off.

A few tips: your Primal Surge on CD can be a bit of a waste, give your Twitch or Ashe a heal, even if they don't need it. They will LOVE the attack speed buff. Bushwhack is really a one point wonder, Get it either at level 2 or 4 (you may want to get Primal Surge before Bushwhack if you are having a hard time laning). Place them alot, strategically. You will have unmatched map awareness.


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AFKray

Senior Member

02-06-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinistral View Post
As someone who mains Nidalee, lemme share some of my experience.

You got pretty much the build I use, except I have a few differences and a few tips for you depending on how the game progresses and your opponents:

Start out with Sapphire and pots of your choice. Finish Sheen and start on boots. Personally I am gay for Boots of Mobility for her. It gives her beyond awesome map control.

Build Rylai's. You probably never have enough to finish it in one or two goes. Get both AP items if the other team isn't doing that great, or you are confident about your mobility. Get one AP item + Belt in general works the best, the extra HP is more then welcome mid game.

From here I usually have enough gold to get 2 Blasting Wands. If the enemy team is magic heavy, you might wanna finish your Sheen into Lich Bane. Else I usually build up to Zylom's. This makes you an amazing healer and increases your damage output (needless to say).

Should the opposing team have high MR or stacking items that provide MR, build a Void Staff. I've had only few games that I really had to.

Usually by the time you finish either Zylom's or Lich the game is 90% over, so where you go from there is up to you.

Soul Stealer is NOT worth it, not under any circumstance. Eve or Veigar ar so much better for it. Yes you will be racking up kills, but the utility gained from Rylai's, you'd be gimping yourself and your team. If you start building SS -after- Rylai's you're usually at about 65% of a game, which is too late, straight AP items are better then.

As for your runes:

Red: Magic Penetration
Yellow: MP/5
Blue: AP/level or CD Flat
Quints: Flat HP

To awsner a question: you are right about the Bushwhack. The Cougar AP/ratio is rather low, I believe 0.3 or 0.4 but you get a low CD as a trade-off.

A few tips: your Primal Surge on CD can be a bit of a waste, give your Twitch or Ashe a heal, even if they don't need it. They will LOVE the attack speed buff. Bushwhack is really a one point wonder, Get it either at level 2 or 4 (you may want to get Primal Surge before Bushwhack if you are having a hard time laning). Place them alot, strategically. You will have unmatched map awareness.
No one should be telling you Mejai's ain't worth it. For someone who plays also main's Nidalee and is high ELO, I must say it's a huge investment. The build is pretty basic which revolves around sheen boots --> rylai's. The survivability is amazing. Mejai's suppliments your lack of AP during the Giant's Belt (ur first item boughten for Rylai's) phase. It's fantastic for her, and since you do tend to get a lot of killing blows due to Takedown, it's payoff is huge.


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Sinistral

Senior Member

02-06-2010

I should probably add, that in MY opinion, SS is not worth it. I can see that it gives her really nice benefits, but if the enemy team is any smart, at all, they will not let you build your stacks and focus you any sooner. Ofcourse, this doesn't always happen, but I know (I usually play premades), that if I see anyone with SS, my team and me are NOT going to let that person get away with stacks.


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AFKray

Senior Member

02-06-2010

Except you have one of the highest thresholds of survivability in the game and dying is usually your mistake and less their move.


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NDAWE

Senior Member

02-06-2010

Usually i dont die a lot. With Katarina always keep more than 10 charges in SS. With Nidale i die even harder because of pounce (also i get cleanse with Nidalee + exaust). Imo SS will be good , but its ALWAYS risky. As i read here my strategy is:

Saphyre +2pots-->Sheen --> boots -->SS --> Giant bell -->finish Rylay and mobility,sorcer or merc(depend of opponents).

This is main part. As main part i understand that this part of items will apply on 95% of my games. This items imo are must for AP Nidalee. Next items (if game is not almost over) depend of how games go, what opponents u got, do they build MR.

Ty for answer my questions Sinistral and AFKush, help me a lot. But i was more interested of how u proceed in 5v5 with AP ? In my eyes is somethink like :

Att speed to your heavy carry ---> W in middle of enemy ---> javelin toss ---> cougar --> pounce to clossest enemy (if mele alrdy started i mean u must not be 1st initiator for sure), E ---> Q ---> pounce back ---> human form and repeat.

Just your normal attack dont do a lot of DMG and your skills got some reuse. Because of that u should fill that gap of reuses with quick jump into the battle and go out before enemy target u.

This is my way of thinking , tomorrow i travel to town where i study, and there is my new PC, and i will try AD Nidalee, to check how that will works. Until then everything is only in my imagination .


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NDAWE

Senior Member

02-06-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinistral View Post
Bushwhack is really a one point wonder, Get it either at level 2 or 4 (you may want to get Primal Surge before Bushwhack if you are having a hard time laning). Place them alot, strategically. You will have unmatched map awareness.
For that part i will say that i alrdy used to put bushwhack onto whole map, and after the 1st 2 games i felt the power of map control. Its rly amazing to know where enemy is. Now with Rylay (slow) and more AP i hope for even better effect. Just i have to change a little my skill build because until now it was W , E , Q ,Q ,Q ,R , E ,Q , E ,Q ... maxing 1st Javelin Toss (tbh i think that i rly trow it very well , alrdy got some beautiful kills with it and a lot of harased enemys), then maxing the heal and left the bushwhack for last. Probably now u will start to level bushwhach with heal in same time, or something like that.


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LordWalmart

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Member

02-06-2010

I find soloing with ap nid is the sole most important thing to do

otherwise i go exhaust flash sheen is a must

sheen
ss
lich
and then whatever


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NDAWE

Senior Member

02-06-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by LordWalmart View Post
I find soloing with ap nid is the sole most important thing to do

otherwise i go exhaust flash sheen is a must

sheen
ss
lich
and then whatever
no rylay ---> no agree.