Your DPS Janna Build?

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CrushD

Senior Member

02-06-2010

It's not pure DPS, but here's what I like using for Janna

Sorcerer Boots
Nashor's Tooth
Wit's End
Trinity Force
Madred's BloodRazor
Void Staff (If no opponents invested in Magic Resist, then Guinsoo instead)

You get plenty of attack speed and Wit's End and Madred's BloodRazor and her own offensive spells benefit from the spell penetration as well as AP and CD reduc for supporting.


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kitfox

Member

02-06-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sanji Watsuki View Post
My personal build.

1. Doran's Shield
2. Berserker's Boots
3. Sword of the Divine
4. Stark's Fervor
5. Brutalizer x 2 (Sell Doran's by this point)
6. Black Cleaver
why 2 brutalisers? the passives dont stack and the raw bonus is simple 25 extra damage.
basically you are overpaying for a pickaxe effect?
u can keep 1 for the armour debuff but the 2nd one should be replaced with something more sinister...say if you get the cash u can go for infinity edge for the extra oomph.

see there are 2 decent ways I like to start.
Dorans Ring. keep this untill i need to get my 6th endgame item then sell by then it would have paid itself off many times.. early it helps keep up Eye Of Storm up on you on almost every cooldown is up. otherwise you may need to be carefull as the janna base mp5 is not so great.
OR
Pendant of regrowth which i try to get to philosopher stone ASAP as 1st item to keep me in lane indefinitely (or until i die or chose to travel)
The extra HP5 helps when you dont have enough mana for a shield or have taken sporadic damage.
since philosophers stone pays itself in about 6 minutes the sooner you take it the more beneficial is to your pocket and item progression.


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Chai

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Member

02-06-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by kitfox View Post
Depends on how you intend to use your dps. If you are going to stand and deliver vs an oponent than armour penetration is a must and attack speed too. if you care going to do alot of kiting you need something like sheen where you pop shield and then autoattack for the extra sheen proc. if you have a blade of the divine and are faily good at counting you can try the sheen proc on your 4th attck for insane damage and if that crits can drop a champ rather quicky.
I have been experimenting with Phantom Dancer, Blade of Divine, Last Whisper, Black Cleaver and works rather good. if the game is still undecided the i sell my philosopher stone and can get triforce or just sheen depends on how tight money is. The KEY item to all these builds is Boots of Mobility. no other boots i have tried can even come close to. with triforce and force of nature i have hit 535 speed out of combat.

Make sure you pick up clense as once you pop clense you are put automaically out of combat and gain mobility 5.
might be a glitch given it needs 5 seconds out of combat but might have to be abonus effect of a summoner spell being used. who knows this is just what i have experienced
I actually don't quite agree with the Boots of Mobility. Janna is meant to be a hit and run hero, which means that chances are, you're gonna get hit a lot by in small damage portions. In other words, you're pretty much using the boots for only ganking purposes, and not utilizing it in a chase/run scenerio where Janna shines at. I'm ran a build before with 2 zeals (replace Avarice blade with a 2nd zeal) and i'm pretty much at 470+ movement speed easily. However, I found the extra movement speed to be not very significant as most champions can't even catch you, and the money is better invested else where in attack speed.


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kitfox

Member

02-06-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chai View Post
I actually don't quite agree with the Boots of Mobility. Janna is meant to be a hit and run hero, which means that chances are, you're gonna get hit a lot by in small damage portions. In other words, you're pretty much using the boots for only ganking purposes, and not utilizing it in a chase/run scenerio where Janna shines at. I'm ran a build before with 2 zeals (replace Avarice blade with a 2nd zeal) and i'm pretty much at 470+ movement speed easily. However, I found the extra movement speed to be not very significant as most champions can't even catch you, and the money is better invested else where in attack speed.
I agree with you completely if you are always moving with the team. However this creates a problem of map awareness. Without twisted faith or clarevoiyance (sp?) if you cant see the enemy then the best is to make them come to you in a controlled manner. means use decoys.

if you setup a decoy of you pushing a lane and you wait for the gank no boots will save you. but if you learn to pull away just in time to get the boots5 bonus before the enemy comes you have now made them walk all that way to your location and not find you. even worse get ambushed mid way.
The extra speed will make sure you are in the fights faster and that means more DPS on targets and if you do end up to come a little late and you havent entered combat yet then you are overtaking enemy running champs by a massive amount and can setup nice monsoon knockbacks or simply just overtake and finish them off. make sure to overtake by a max range of your attack so you have twice the range of killzone as they run past/through. not to mention you sandwitch them and have zephyr and gale off CD ready to plow the field.

plus being overtaken by such a massive amount is demoralising to a fleeing champion's player and may snowball into a team effect and force some errors to aid you to victory.
Think of a beaten up old camry in a race with a formula 1. Bet its depressing to to feel helpless and just await your slow death.


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Chai

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Member

02-06-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by kitfox View Post
The extra speed will make sure you are in the fights faster and that means more DPS on targets and if you do end up to come a little late and you havent entered combat yet then you are overtaking enemy running champs by a massive amount and can setup nice monsoon knockbacks or simply just overtake and finish them off. make sure to overtake by a max range of your attack so you have twice the range of killzone as they run past/through. not to mention you sandwitch them and have zephyr and gale off CD ready to plow the field.

plus being overtaken by such a massive amount is demoralising to a fleeing champion's player and may snowball into a team effect and force some errors to aid you to victory.
Think of a beaten up old camry in a race with a formula 1. Bet its depressing to to feel helpless and just await your slow death.
My point is that boots of Mobility DOESN'T allow one to do that as its bonuses wear off completely in midst of battle. Therefore, your entire argument is invalid.


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Quinnister

Senior Member

02-06-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by kitfox View Post
why 2 brutalisers? the passives dont stack and the raw bonus is simple 25 extra damage.
basically you are overpaying for a pickaxe effect?
u can keep 1 for the armour debuff but the 2nd one should be replaced with something more sinister...say if you get the cash u can go for infinity edge for the extra oomph.

It's all about the armor penetration. I don't even look into the CD reduction. With marks and quints, I can penetrate 29 armor by myself. 30 penetration from 2 more Brutalizers. 25 reduction from Stark's Fervor. 12 reduction per armor per hit with Cleaver. The point is to reduce their armor from whatever to 0. If they have 90 armor, for example, they're only receiving 52.6% damage. If I can penetrate/reduce all 90, I'm dealing 90% more damage per hit, guaranteed.
My thoughts.


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CrushD

Senior Member

02-06-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sanji Watsuki View Post
It's all about the armor penetration. I don't even look into the CD reduction. With marks and quints, I can penetrate 29 armor by myself. 30 penetration from 2 more Brutalizers. 25 reduction from Stark's Fervor. 12 reduction per armor per hit with Cleaver. The point is to reduce their armor from whatever to 0. If they have 90 armor, for example, they're only receiving 52.6% damage. If I can penetrate/reduce all 90, I'm dealing 90% more damage per hit, guaranteed.
Problem with that is, the armor penetration on Brutalizer is listed under the Unique passive, so it shouldn't stack. It is listed as such both on the website's database and in game, you might've got the misconception from leaguebuilder, where in that site it isn't unique (along with other minor errors on that site).


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kitfox

Member

02-06-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chai View Post
My point is that boots of Mobility DOESN'T allow one to do that as its bonuses wear off completely in midst of battle. Therefore, your entire argument is invalid.
be careful on the misuse of battle to signify combat. The game is fairly specific on what constitutes being in combat. If all your teammates say have boots 2 and the enemy has boots 3 maybe even a phantom dancer or some champ ability to increase speed or even ghost. your chasing team has no hope of killing that fleeing champ. If you come into the fray and do not take damage or deal damage then you are NOT in combat and can keep your out of combat speed. Now if the enemy i smart he should target you and put you in combat but if you have shield on and don't take health damage you are still out of combat unless its not working as intended and needs to be looked into.
So as you overtake the enemy and don't damage him you can keep you full speed allowing you to execute monsoon or start attacking.

As far as already being in combat you should have enough speed if zephyr hasn't been used recently to catch or run away from almost anyone.
The other idea is in a situation where it looks like your top end incombat speed cant catch someone then just pull out of combat early and dont persue wait for the boots 5 to kick in and I assure you you will catch them much easier than chasing and pot-shotting them every time you get into range. as you stop to shoot that gives them a distance to safely pull back to a tower or own ambush zone.

as a anecdotal evidence I was cleaning up some creeps near our bottom outter tower. There was a 2v1 scuffle in their bottom outter tower jungle (they only had their inner on that lane). our twisted fate and blitz vs tristana and she was getting away slowly. I gave chase and caught her just before she reached the inner tower but since janna does not do insane mount of burst damage all I managed to do was drop her from 30% health to about 5-10% before the turret locked onto me.

Not kiling tristana isnt the point. point is the distance covered in small amount of time. If you can ping pong and push 3 lanes with relative short delay then 3 lanes are that much more work for the enemy to counter. Same goes for supporting those 3 lanes.

EDIT:
so the argument is not Boots of Mobility vs Boots of Swiftness as they both only benefit you with raw speed and Mobility wins out overall due to the ability to cover distances quicker between combats.
The argument then boils down to raw boots 2 in combat vs boots 2 plus bonuses.
As I said earlier its not a written in stone rule. I switch boots if needed but primarily in my ELO bracket what I do works so never needed any other boots.


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kitfox

Member

02-06-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sanji Watsuki
It's all about the armor penetration. I don't even look into the CD reduction. With marks and quints, I can penetrate 29 armor by myself. 30 penetration from 2 more Brutalizers. 25 reduction from Stark's Fervor. 12 reduction per armor per hit with Cleaver. The point is to reduce their armor from whatever to 0. If they have 90 armor, for example, they're only receiving 52.6% damage. If I can penetrate/reduce all 90, I'm dealing 90% more damage per hit, guaranteed.

As already said its unique-passive so they don't stack but if you look at it you may not even need 1 brutaliser.

As far as i know it goes Reduction,%Pen,FlatPen.
So a target with say 100 armour. Stark makes it 75 after the 6th Hit will be at 15 Armour if you dont have any % pen then the next is your 1 brutaliser bypasses 15 points of that. so target is as if he had 0 Armour. Your should be doing full non reduced damage to you target.
100 armour isnt hard do get since most champs have base armour that scales. Take Ashe for example off this website database starts at 9.3 with +3.4 per level. so at lvl 18 she is at 67.1 armour say 70 i like round numbers.
Stark + 6 hits black cleaver = -15 you are now hitting for amplified damage.
since you are bellow zero your % and flat pen dont get used means your brutaliser(s) are only there for the 25 extra damage. waste of money.

Now lets say you go up against Rammus 21+3.8per level at 18 has 85 base armour.
Lets say he has Sunfire Cape, Atmas Impaler, Frozen Heart, Thornmail, Ninja Tabi and Warden Mail.
Thats total of 393 armour for 79.7% damage reduction.
So we go again Stark + 6 hit cleaver = 308 armour he is still at 75% damage reduction
Now your brutaliser 293 armour to you. thats 74.5% damage reduction. miniscule.
Lets say you had Last Whisper instead of your brutaliser. 40% pen on the 308 armour thats 123 armour negated = 64.9% damage reduction.

So at the end is what kind of target do you want to go after but in all effects brutalisers lose out in comparison to better items.
if you had the cash to stack anything I would stack black cleavers thats 150 raw damage right out of the bat. Not to mention the passive is not unique.
The debuff is however unique so you can only get 5 stacks however you are now doing it 2 per attack. So that -60 armour comes in 2.5 hits instead of 5.

However if you are to pick up britaliser as your first item before anyone has any major armour from base level or any massive items then for what it costs its well worth it. keep it until you need to buy your 6th item and such. But early game I found Janna to need more of mp5 and hp5 than CD and armour pen but its a valid start just means you carry mana and health pots for longer.


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Quinnister

Senior Member

02-06-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by kitfox View Post
As already said its unique-passive so they don't stack but if you look at it you may not even need 1 brutaliser.

As far as i know it goes Reduction,%Pen,FlatPen.
So a target with say 100 armour. Stark makes it 75 after the 6th Hit will be at 15 Armour if you dont have any % pen then the next is your 1 brutaliser bypasses 15 points of that. so target is as if he had 0 Armour. Your should be doing full non reduced damage to you target.
100 armour isnt hard do get since most champs have base armour that scales. Take Ashe for example off this website database starts at 9.3 with +3.4 per level. so at lvl 18 she is at 67.1 armour say 70 i like round numbers.
Stark + 6 hits black cleaver = -15 you are now hitting for amplified damage.
Of course, Black Cleaver is an excellent item. Granted, how often are you going to have the 6-stacks up and how often are you going to be hitting with those stacks? The armor penetration from Brutalizer increases during this segment.
since you are bellow zero your % and flat pen dont get used means your brutaliser(s) are only there for the 25 extra damage. waste of money.
Assuming you can get them below 0.

Now lets say you go up against Rammus 21+3.8per level at 18 has 85 base armour.
Lets say he has Sunfire Cape, Atmas Impaler, Frozen Heart, Thornmail, Ninja Tabi and Warden Mail.
Thats total of 393 armour for 79.7% damage reduction.
So we go again Stark + 6 hit cleaver = 308 armour he is still at 75% damage reduction
Now your brutaliser 293 armour to you. thats 74.5% damage reduction. miniscule.
Lets say you had Last Whisper instead of your brutaliser. 40% pen on the 308 armour thats 123 armour negated = 64.9% damage reduction.
Of course, the argument where your money is wasted also goes for the Last Whisper. You will see a much greater damage to high armor targets, though, I will say. I get that -- this isn't my first rodeo, so to speak.

So at the end is what kind of target do you want to go after but in all effects brutalisers lose out in comparison to better items.
if you had the cash to stack anything I would stack black cleavers thats 150 raw damage right out of the bat. Not to mention the passive is not unique.
The debuff is however unique so you can only get 5 stacks however you are now doing it 2 per attack. So that -60 armour comes in 2.5 hits instead of 5.
Effectively, 3 hits. Still, you're paying heavily for those extra 3 hits, in terms of value.

However if you are to pick up britaliser as your first item before anyone has any major armour from base level or any massive items then for what it costs its well worth it. keep it until you need to buy your 6th item and such. But early game I found Janna to need more of mp5 and hp5 than CD and armour pen but its a valid start just means you carry mana and health pots for longer.
Of course, assuming ~30 armor pen from runes alone, it's highly likely you wouldn't see any gain from getting Brutalizer this early. Brutalizer would have its peak effectiveness when people start to break your penetration threshhold.
I, honestly, haven't had that great of a mana problem with this build, to be fair.


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