The new Yi - 4 or 5 zeal Master Yi

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Mr Threepwood

Senior Member

03-02-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by SBMaster86 View Post
It seems the whole idea of this build is that it forces more than one person to come counter you, allowing your team to dominate in a 4v3. However, there are certain champs that can easily force this Yi to back off on their own. Basically any champ with a heavy hitting AoE attack or multiple AoE attacks to nuke all the minions at once.

Champs that can do this most easily include Mordekaiser, Malzahar, Kassadin, Annie, Pantheon, and Rammus. If they've farmed up enough power, Nasus, Renekton, Vladimir, Sion, and even Jarvan IV if he gets a good angle on them with his Q.

Even more dangerous are champs that can nuke all the minions AND trap Yi under the tower once they're gone, like Pantheon, Malzahar, Rammus, Sion, and Jarvan IV.

Pantheon is the biggest counter to this strategy as his jump will get him on your ass instantly, nuking all the minions at the same time, then stun + heartseeker combo. If you catches you in tower range too, it's a guaranteed kill for Pantheon.
Pantheon's a counter? I can get to the edge of the ring of his ult with Anivia in merc treads. A yi with 4 zeals? You're going to be out of range of the ult before you even know you're trying to leave it. As for easily clearing off a lane, yeah, those guys can do it (you missed anivia) but they can't move between the TWO lanes to stop both of them. However, super farm yi may be doing great with all his gold, and ALL the experience on the map, but his 4 lane mates are going to have some serious problems trying to take out even 3 opponents, or even 2 if they are smart enough to sit their tower, considering the enemies exp/gold advantage due to the fact that their yi ISN'T taking two lanes worth of gold and experience.

Frankly, for this to work you'd need some rather specific champs on your team. Poppy seems handy since you'll likely be fighting that 4v3 on the enemy turret.


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Kikhan

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Senior Member

03-03-2011

This is just a gimmick it only works if the other team doesn't keep it lanes pushed. It can be countered easily by a mobile champ and keeping lanes pushed. While that is kind of tedious eventually you will wear their defenses down while they are fighting undermanned constantly. Wards are your friends once you have lost your tier2 towers. Generally you need a speedy tanky dps to shoo him away as he will lose any direct engagement usually.

Once they are pushed to their base Yi will be forced to stay and help defend. You just have to keep pressure on the opponents and this build is weak in a team fight.

To above poster this build is designed for hit and run. YI would see Panth incoming and just run away and wait for panth to leave and then come right back. Panth is a counter just to be able to get to the tower quickly and shoo yi away.


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Korpoga

Junior Member

03-03-2011

Can see it working. And the fact that yi takes two lanes for himself should not be too bad since the opponents should be forced to keep most of their team defending the lane with yi's teammates as well. If they split to push the other lanes yi's mates should be able to push their lane since its now a 4 vs 2 or something.


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Suuperdad

Senior Member

03-03-2011

A few responses to some comments...

Regarding Extreme Gold/EXP
Yi hording the gold on the map is easily my biggest concern with this build. I've had games where I've farmed 30k gold in 45-50 mins. The rest of my team was obviously well below this and this got me concerned. This could be a big flaw in this build.

Things that mitigate this are:
- Your team is constantly in a state of 4v3 (or if you are quick and they are mid, 5v3), so they *should* be winning most teamfights they encounter, and getting TONS of kill/assist gold, as well as running through the enemy jungle and getting all that gold.
- Two people on the other team are usually required to stop you, notably someone that is super high dps, or CC - or else you can just ignore them and drop the tower regardless of their presence (while your minion line hits them). For example, Soraka showing up to stop the Yi doesn't really do anything, Yi just ignores her and takes the tower down.

Starving enemy team:
Yi pushing both lanes normally means two things
1) The people coming to stop your minion wave are normally their AoE'ers, and/or CC'ers (to try to get you). This means that generally the most threatening targets from their team are coming from you. So not only are you setting up 4v3's for your teamates, but those 4v3's are generally Tank + Support + one DPS. So not only do they only have 3, but those 3 are simply not capable of stopping a 4-push, simply because it's their DPS that has to stop you.
2) When you push both lanes simultaneously, they need to send 2 to stop you, and those 2 must be DPS/CC. Because of this, if you get good at this and can time both lanes pushed to a tower at the same time, those 2 dps still have to come to you (or you can generally ignore one and drop the tower), so that means one lane is in a constant state of the tower killing minions with no enemy hero present. I.E. this build absolutely STARVES the enemy team of an entire lane of gold/exp, constantly. Again, this isn't something you can accomplish on your first attempt, it takes a few games to get good at timings of when to push lanes.

Your goal is always to push lanes with a timing that maximizes the exp/gold loss for the other team.


Your Viability in teamfights, and the single biggest weakness of this build:

You still have some viability in a teamfight, but if your team is somehow behind, it will be very hard to pull back into the game. You get blown up instantly in a teamfight (although since you farm so much gold, lategame you always have the option of selling your entire itemset and getting a new 6. Certainly at least you can sell a few PD's and pick up Frozen Mallet/Atma's.

Biggest weakness of this build:

The biggest weakness is if somehow the enemy team is able to push on you. Lets say that you are pushing bot, and for some reason your brainless team decides to intiate a 4v5 on them near baron before you can come help. If they wipe your team, you are going to get pushed hard. Depending on how the recovery on respawn goes, if they are able to maintain the push, and you lose towers, now you aren't as safe to push out as far anymore. You are forced to base defend, and this is where the game becomes hard to win.

All games I've lost with this build are games happen like this:

Enemy team is pushing 5 strong somewhere. You are pushing at least 1 other lane strong. Now, this is exactly where you want this game to be. You want to FORCE them to react to you by sending at least 2 people, and THEN have your team initiate a 4v3 on them. So you are in the perfect situation atm. However, for some reason, your brainless team decides to initate a 4v5 and gets wiped. You set up a perfect game situation, and instead of capitalizing on it, your team put themselves on a platter.

Basically, as long as they stay 5 strong your 4 teamates should be D-ing up under a tower until the precise moment that 1-2 of them leave, and then initiating a 4v3. Maybe that's too much higher-level strategy to expect a random group of people to be able to handle?

For this reason, I think this 4-zeal Yi may be a KILLER component of a competent team i.e. an advanced strategy, but may be extremely detrimental to a team full of baddies that don't understand how to capitalize on him.


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Sorbon

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Senior Member

03-03-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kikhan View Post
This is just a gimmick it only works if the other team doesn't keep it lanes pushed. It can be countered easily by a mobile champ and keeping lanes pushed. While that is kind of tedious eventually you will wear their defenses down while they are fighting undermanned constantly. Wards are your friends once you have lost your tier2 towers. Generally you need a speedy tanky dps to shoo him away as he will lose any direct engagement usually.
Are you actually suggesting that it's easy to counter this with a champ/build intended to dot he exact same thing (push and be mobile)? Why does it work for the other team but not for Yi? At best wouldn't these two cancel each other out by keeping two lanes pushed back and forth?

My only real problem with this build/plan is that the natural flow of minions will cause towers to even out. If you get a good push in on top, you'll be stuck babysitting top or else your first tower will drop in short order. Basically, this may end up being everything you do.

I think I'll try something like this soon anyway. I'd rather see it as a Jungle Yi. Even if you went slower w/o Smite, you'd just be ensuring full exp/gold for a teammate. Once you're in position to push safely (which wouldn't take too long farming the jungle) you can relieve that top solo to roam and gank, as he'll be more suited for it than you anyway.


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Suuperdad

Senior Member

03-03-2011

There is no natural flow of minions to even it out. 4 zeal yi pushes a lane just as fast as Sivir, but does it with 500+ movespeed. He can keep two lanes pushed at once quite easily. The enemy team either has to send at least 2 people to stop you, or they lose a tower. Then when they do your team of 4 intiates a 4v3. The 2 people coming for you will NEVER catch you (literally impossible) and while they are clearing your minion wave, you are pushing the other (or pushing down a tower).

The only counter to this would be if they have two good pushers, or were very fed early and can fight 3v4 no problem. But all things being even, this build is strategically very strong.

Most people stop thinking about strategy once they get into teamfights. That’s as “big picture” as they get. This build is a macro-macro strategy build.

The more I play it though, the more I realise that if you have a bunch of bads on your team, you should abandon this immediately. They will intiate 4v5's nonstop. They aren't smart enough to D under a tower until the other team is FORCED to come to you. Even still, with these baddies, I've been able to pull out many a game regardless, just by constantly pushing down towers and sniping inhibs, etc.


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Suuperdad

Senior Member

03-03-2011

Sample replay of it:

http://www.gamereplays.org/leagueofl...ails&id=193599


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iVeracity

Member

03-03-2011

This may be totally noob but if the sole goal of the this build is to push towers and minions, wouldnt it be to your advantage to substitute a Sword of the Divine for one of those zeals? the extra magic damage applies to towers and would allow you to take out minions that much quicker. Not to mention the extra armor pen on the active for when you do encounter someone trying to stop you...

just a thought..


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Kikhan

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Senior Member

03-03-2011

I say it is a gimmick because I also had a Karthus run a similar build and we beat him doing the same as I said up above. He ran tele/revive and he literally would have no death time. He had 8 more deaths then anyone on his team yet had less death time then anyone but one person on his team.

One good fight where you kill even 2 of your opponents and your team pushes towers down. Especially if the gimmick person is dead it is a free for all on your opponents. Just keep lanes pushed out and the gimmick build is still required to fight through 2 minion waves. Unless he wants to hit the tower 5 times tanking it. Then he runs and maybe gets caught and die if not he has to regen in some way. If timed right you can have your schwerpunkt whiddle on a tower. Then just have your response person meet gimmick at a tower.


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Suuperdad

Senior Member

03-03-2011

You go zeals/PD for the movespeed. The movespeed is everything. Absolutely everything.

You already kill crazy fast with a 2.5 attack speed with wriggles and alpha strike. You basically clear the wave on the run.