[Guide] Tactics: Itís What Separates the Good and the Bad, by SciencePrime

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SciencePrime

Senior Member

02-24-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alassea View Post
+1

Great stuff, thanks for sharing. I would consider myself pretty good technically, but in terms of strategy, I'm still looking to learn new things...Maybe that's why I'm not at a higher elo level. :P

Anyway! I just wanted to give you a heads-up that I've added you in-game. If you ever have a moment, I would love the chance to ask you a question or two (that's hopefully not too dumb...:P).

Thanks again for sharing your knowledge!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suuperdad View Post
I want you on my friends list. These are things that I constantly tell people ingame, and they STILL don't listen.
I will gladly add! Thank you for the positive feedback.


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King Adrian

Senior Member

02-24-2011

Bump nice info.


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Rahceusk

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Member

02-24-2011

Great guide Mr. Science!

and...
THIS v

Quote:
Originally Posted by razor1n View Post
Even as a 1550 player there are little things in here I know in the back of my head, but feel like I learned something from this.

Another large one I commonly see is over aggression with an advantage. If your team is killing them in lane and going 5-2 or something. Do not group and push unless they attempt to first, take dragons, abuse map control, ward their jungle, steal their buffs, take forward towers if vulnerable, zone them out, kill their weak links. Just don't turn it into a 5v5 stalemate trying to take mid tower, every second this endures they are catching up.

If they do push, engage with 5 from their side or back. The turret may take damage, but you will ace them or better and get farther ahead.
I've been on the losing side of this early game a lot lately and just LOL as they lose for over aggression.


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SciencePrime

Senior Member

02-25-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by NightElfMoehawk View Post
You should write a **** book about LoL. My god ****ed teammates need to learn this ****, and most of the time, I see them with skins. They'd probably pay to learn to get better if they payed for a skin.
Haha. Glad to hear you think players would find this info useful. I may try to make a few more strategy guides. I attempted an early game guide but it was too overwhelming. I think any guide writers best bet is to focus on very specific things, in this case, broad late game concepts, though I haven't covered a number of late game concepts such as backdooring, backdoor defense, baiting, late game team comps, builds, etc. The beauty of this game is its simplicity yet surprising depth. What's that Othello quote? A minute to learn and a lifetime to master.


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Obliza

Senior Member

02-25-2011

Very good tips, I agree with your message. +1


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FurKing Wolf

Member

02-25-2011

Ok question because I run into this a lot in ranked. What do you do when you are losing games 5v4 where you blow up one and when the team fight starts you still lose. I know this is probably due to getting outpicked but is there any way to still win a game when this is happening, my morale goes out the door when it happens 3-4 times in a game.


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SciencePrime

Senior Member

02-25-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by K0opaTr0opa View Post
Ok question because I run into this a lot in ranked. What do you do when you are losing games 5v4 where you blow up one and when the team fight starts you still lose. I know this is probably due to getting outpicked but is there any way to still win a game when this is happening, my morale goes out the door when it happens 3-4 times in a game.
The only reasons I can think of are:

1) They have crazy AoE and you engaged them in too tight of a formation
2) They had more kills and dragon snags (hence more gold and better items)
3) Your builds did not mitigate their strengths
4) Team comps

Items 1-3 are fairly easy to counter. 1) engage spread out and in lanes, 2) hang back and safely farm, 3) Buy MR/Armor...

Unfortunately if the other team basically outpicked you in champion selection or your team did not diversify their roles (Two squishy DPS instead of a tank), then there isn't much you can do other than hope they make enough mistakes to allow you to turn things around.

I'm not on my personal computer so I can't check your profile to see your experience level but everyone needs to learn 3+ champions for every role (AP, DPS, Support, Tank, Jungle) so you can build up a decent team comp even if some of your solo queue teammates aren't good. I never queue alone btw. Always with at least 1 guy who also knows how to play many champions for each role.


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greenerpastures

Senior Member

02-25-2011

i find that if you have trouble breaking through a team even when you get it into a 4v5 (lets say the other team is galio/kennen/olaf/ashe/mordekaiser...and if you get one, the other 4 can still put a serious hurt on you)

the best thing to do is pin them down with 3 or 4 of your guys, and have one person do things in this order (this person should be the most mobile member of the team who seemingly has the best map awareness)

a) do dragon
b)steal their jungle buffs
c) clear dangerous creep waves and start a minion wave back at them
d) take the time to set up a lot of wards

Sometimes you cannot beat them straight up unless you are at least 2 champs up on them...but you have to play intelligently then. if you can force the enemy team into inaction/not farming, then you are winning if you can farm and get other objectives.


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FurKing Wolf

Member

02-25-2011

We are usually up on kills when this scenario happens and yes Kennen is my nightmare in these situations. I was up on items being a 7-2 Olaf and I think they were up 1 dragon, I believed it was a good time to push a team fight in mid lane towers down on both sides. I guess I just need to always duo que.


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MrRJ

Member

02-25-2011

Quote:
Tip 1: Always ignore the tanks and always target the squishies first in team fights. Yes, I know the Malphite just ulted and it makes a super scary noise and stuff, but donít flip out and use your skill rotation on him. He has done what he can do in the team fight and now itís your job to make sure Ashe/Tristana/Soraka/Annie doesnít sit comfortably in the back wrecking havoc. Even if you canít kill them and get them low, you have still performed your role of forcing away the high damage / support enemy from the team fight. Conversely, it is important for your tanks to protect your own carry.
This is problematic. Sometimes the worse thing you can do is ignore a tank and dive squishes because this can lead to your team splitting apart. Who you should attack largely depends on positioning and what kind of hero you are. Also, some tanks/support are designed to stay near their carries which means their job is to cc anyone that comes near their carries. In other words, they shouldn't be jumping squishes they should be ccing whomever is on their carry (think Janna as the paradigm of this example). Some of the worst plays I see are Kassadins teleporting to the back of an enemy line, unable to finish off a carry and then dying making the fight 4v5. I can't tell you how many team fights I've seen lost because people chase a kiting corki or nidalee (which imo is what makes nidalee king on soloq but pretty bad draft mode).

Here's some better rough guidance on team fights:
1. Support - attack whomever's on your carry (heroes like taric, janna) If you're Zil should be putting bombs on your tanks and speeding up your carry.
2. Ranged Carry - You should just hit the closest target because your DPS should be high enough to burn down tanks (see Reginald's corki guide, team-fight section). http://www.solomid.net/guides.php?g=2
3. Melee Carry - This depends on your hero. WW, and Olaf are good against tanks but really susceptible to getting kited. WW being the worst because lower elo WW's always blow their ults too soon not thinking that a) they're not going to blow up the squishy without the help of their teammates b) not taking into account the opposing team's cc c) no escape mechanism. Heroes like irelia and xin are really good at chasing down squishes.
4. Tanks - Depends on your team comp. Sometimes you want to save your CC for saving your carry instead of initiating with it. For instance, if you're malphite and they have a ww or malzahar it may be better for you to wait for them to ult first before you ult.

Other random tips:
- Trust your teammates. I see carries running away while shen is ulting them all the time.
- If you're a ranged carry don't build tank items (except for maybe mercs). If your playing miss fortune and your first item is frozen mallet you're doing it wrong. Play something else.