Im tired of tanky dps teams.

Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

TehNewb

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

02-23-2011

Really want to counter this? It is easy to do. Go all tank fortify teleport team. Late game you never die and can ignore all damage.

People forget that this game is about PUSHING the towers and not killing people. If you get tanky enough to where you can just mow down a tower while taking fire from the enemy team. It doesn't matter if they are winning by 30 kills.

A suggestion for this team: Cho'gath, Mundo, Cow, Shen, Malphite.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Dimensionist

Senior Member

02-23-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zvin View Post
However, it does suggest that a team of such characters can generally get away with more errors and less team support and perform.
I agree here, one slight mistake with a DPS like Ashe means certain death. Whereas mundo can do whatever he pleases, run away, then come back in twenty seconds with full HP ready for round two.

I think a large part of the problem is exhaust. How often do you see a MF, Ashe, or Sivir with exhaust? Compare that to how often a Xin/Poppy/Renekton pack exhaust. That's a whole seperate issue but exhaust needs to be reevaluated imho.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Farego

Senior Member

02-23-2011

If you are using madreds bloodrazor as an example to counter tanks you are sorely mistaken. A little extra mr and the damage from it is basically negligible.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Danceblaster

Senior Member

02-23-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hotdogs View Post
attack scaling is better
you can get multiplicative bonuses from ad, as, crit, crit damage, penetration
for defense you can only get multiplicative bonuses from hp and defense or mr
sunfire is a bad example because its a crappy tank item, its more like a hybrid tank/offense item

maybe you should compare bloodrazer instead of black cleaver
+30 Attack Damage
+40% Attack Speed
+25 Armor
UNIQUE Passive: On hit, deals Magic Damage equal to 4% of the target's maximum Health.

say you hit a tank with 4000 hp
you deal 160 magic damage + 40 physical damage
in like 2 or 3 hits you will tear through that sunfire cape bonus
if you had a high attack speed that would take under a second
also you get more than half of the armor effect of the sunfire

i know its a bad comparison but the point is you should not underestimate dps items
I mean, we're talking about hybrid offense/defense characters. :P And I think that 4k HP is pushing in on those types of characters. My gut tells me that most such characters float around the 3k range. Under this analysis, Madred's does really help to can the problem. However, note the cost: 3800. It's a pricey item. You have to just hope that the other team will not shut down the lanes and your jungle before then. If they take advantage of the fact you've not finished that item, force a few teamfights, and take map control, you might find it difficult to keep the gold flowing.

At any rate, it does seem that Madred's, not Last Whisper or a Black Cleaver, is your solution to these tanky types. Even if they only stop at 2.5k, that Madred's will be hitting for an extra 100 + 30. Not only that, but if they do grab armor to counter you, that 100 is magic damage. While I've not actually looked, I don't think any other items provide that much damage for that price. (And certainly not the Aspeed and armor!) I'll have to keep it in mind next time I play a DPS champ. :]


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

xdzy

Senior Member

02-23-2011

No champion is a glass cannon unless you build them in such a way.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

TK464

Senior Member

02-23-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zvin View Post
I think my post partially explains why Ashe might be such an effective carry. Her slow and ult effectively allows a well-played Ashe to provide her own CC. If I can peg you with an ult and get a slow on you, it's much easier for me to get those first few hits in to "break even". At that point, the HP from the tank's sunfire is gone, while Ashe still has the additional damage effects, and so has the upper hand from there on out, in some sense. I'm not saying that the math says definitively that tanky-DPS are broken.However, it does suggest that a team of such characters can generally get away with more errors and less team support and perform.
Even with Ashe she gets shut down by many abilities. Unless she can keep the enemy at max possible range she risks getting charged or similar. For instance with Sion, if she lets him get into range of Cryptic Gaze just once then she's dead. You simply cannot make a mistake or you'll die, where as the other guy can make mistake after mistake. Look at Mundo, you could just screw up all day with him and make horrible decisions and still escape with ease.

Playing the balanced team so to speak requires both more personal skill and better judgment as well as team skill and judgment. And sometimes skill is simply not enough, bad luck is a factor. Beefy guy runs into enemy in the forest and he stands a good chance of escaping, not a chance in hell for most squishies.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Danceblaster

Senior Member

02-23-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by TK464 View Post
Even with Ashe she gets shut down by many abilities. Unless she can keep the enemy at max possible range she risks getting charged or similar. For instance with Sion, if she lets him get into range of Cryptic Gaze just once then she's dead. You simply cannot make a mistake or you'll die, where as the other guy can make mistake after mistake. Look at Mundo, you could just screw up all day with him and make horrible decisions and still escape with ease.

Playing the balanced team so to speak requires both more personal skill and better judgment as well as team skill and judgment. And sometimes skill is simply not enough, bad luck is a factor. Beefy guy runs into enemy in the forest and he stands a good chance of escaping, not a chance in hell for most squishies.
Let's not forget that Mundo can also do jaw-dropping damage with that stupid E and his cleavers. :P


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Dimensionist

Senior Member

02-23-2011

See my exhaust thread here:

http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board...d.php?t=538464


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

TK464

Senior Member

02-23-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zvin View Post
Let's not forget that Mundo can also do jaw-dropping damage with that stupid E and his cleavers. :P
Even forgetting E and W(Which is decent damage considering it's free for tanky Mundo), his Cleaver alone will simply annihilate anyone without MR, high health or not. For instance I was fighting a Vlad, fairly early game, and my cleavers would hit him for a whopping 550 or so damage at full health.

Slightly off topic but I still feel Mundo needs to have cleavers scale off something, anything. They're simply too good to someone with full defensive items. I mean I remember losing a 1v1 the other day to Mundo as Warwick, He was out healing my life steal by a large amount with his ult and inflicting serious damage despite having zero offensive items.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

mana montana

Senior Member

02-23-2011

don't forget you cant escape from mundo and can't chase him. but can have 6k EHP 60% disable reduction mega move speed and can still 3 hit you with melee/cleave.

I have questions against how to counter mundo at least in 3v3 map. how should you build? frozen mallet? your dmg will suck and survivability is not that great with only the hp as he has far more ehp. going pure damage you can get 3shot in a few seconds.
what is best way to itemize against this type of champ? life steal tank? or just pure damage items and hope you burn his hp faster then he burns you.

the only real thing i know of that cane counter tanky dps champs is get the mother of all tanky dps champs. nasus and turtle for an hour and a half and have triforce with 2 fed blood thirsters so each SS hit heals you for half hp.