Crit % vs. Crit damage runes : the math

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XReyoX

Senior Member

01-27-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by EnderTheXenocide View Post
In this case, the average damage you do per attack is given by adding your normal base damage times the chance of NOT critting, plus the crit boosted damage times your chance of critting.
OR: average damage per attack = B * (1-C) + B*C*(2+D)
I think the crit boosted damage is B*C*2*(1+D) instead. The multiplier is applied to the crit damage so a base damage of 100 with a 10% crit damage boost should crit for 220 without arP, not 210.

Could someone confirm this?


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Darkening

Senior Member

01-27-2010

Would it be best to get all crit chance runes, or half and half?


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Kung Fu English

Senior Member

01-27-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Varmin View Post
You can't really compare it to pvp in WoW. Pvp in WoW is a very healing centered game. You really only have 2 ways to win in wow pvp, to either drain their healer of mana, or to burst through their healing. (except for team comps without healers, then it's a bit different.)

LoL however has much less healing than WoW, even if 50% healing debuffs didn't exist, few champions can heal and still then for only mild amounts.

Crit % and Crit Damage both increase your 'Burst'. Crit % increases how often you will see burst, and crit damage how much it will be for.
I definitely agree it's not totally comparable. But on the basic level it is somewhat comparable in the fact that if your opponent can run away, you will lose the kill since they can get healed either by regen or by recall.

With luck, you may get the same number of crits in a fight regardless of your crit %, but if you have higher crit dmg you are more likely to kill them. Of course this crit string is less likely to happen in the first place, so that has to be considered.

But I think the main reason I like crit damage is this plus the fact it can turn around a game late. IE + dancer + any other crit item = 70%+ crit, which is easy to obtain. If the game ends before this you've probably already won or lost anyway beyond what you could have controlled by changing your runes (IE it is like 24-4 kill ratio team v team, you getting 3 more kills early would not have changed the game from being a landslide).

The question is concerning close games. Will those 2-3 extra kills early sway a close game in your favor later? Or might it be better to have more damage output later such that you can turn a game around later? It is a tough question to be sure and I think it is personal preference.

Also I already bought crit dmg runes before reading any of these math posts so now I'm stuck with them :P


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MrLucky13

Junior Member

01-27-2010

Just to throw my 2 cents into this topic....

I play TEEMO / BLITZ

I was talking with my friends and we came to the conclusion that for teemo it would be best to make all my runes crit dmg (50%)....Because, teemo is mainly going to hit ALOT/FAST. So once I actually land a crit, its going to hurt BAD not to mention the added posion that will kill him if he is low and runs away......So then all I need to do is make sure im getting my crit chance items mid game to increase my crit chance....

But for blitz we decided that crit chance would be better(I do have some mana regen and dodge on my runes for him)...But mainly more crit chance because I am hitting way LESS/SLOWER....

***So mainly it all comes down to what items your buying during the game (to pick % over dmg)

***Also, does anyone have any advice on the runes that suit TEEMO/BLITZ best?


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Shrandis

Junior Member

01-27-2010

@XReyoX: I think you are wrong about that %220 thing. You are saying that raw crit damage for someone with 100 damage and %10 crit damage boost will crit for 220. But it isn't calculated like that. Default critical hit damage is %200. When you get crit damage increases, it adds to this percent, so %10 crit dmg means your critical hits will do %210 of normal damage.

crit dmg is A LOT better in early game too, if you are Shaco, you can deceive half of their hp with arp marks and crit dmg runes.
So my point is, it depends on the game and champion you are playing. But as others said before, crit dmg is better late game.


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DarthBaio

Junior Member

01-27-2010

I feel like MrLucky13 deserves 98 more cents so he has a full dollar. What he just said is a gamebreaker in this situation. Champions with higher attack speeds don't need as much crit chance, as their ability to crit is higher than champions who don't hit as often. Basically, it balances out to the point where a high AS champ with high crit damage will equal out with a low/mid AS champ who hits harder without his crits. Lets pretend for a moment that a Champ has 45% crit chance with 70% enhanced crit damage at 2.000 AS with 150 base attack, versus a Champ with 75% crit chance with 50% enhanced crit damage at 1.500 attack speed with 175 base attack. (Random numbers... I'm feeling lazy right now)

In a 5 second span, Champ 1 has launched 10 attacks against Champ 2's 7 attacks. Factoring in luck and ignoring armor/dodge, assume Champ 1 critted 5 times to Champ 2's 5 crits. Champ 1 did (150*5)+(5*150*2.7) or 750+2025=2775 damage (278 dps). Champ 2 did (175*2)+(5*175*2.5) or 350+2188=2537 damage (254 dps) On another note, Champ 2 will attack again before Champ 1, so the dps is closer than it appears, depending on how lucky he is. Therefore, it is best to base your Crit Chance/Damage decision on your own specific character.

Edit: This exercise assumes that this particular fight is 1v1 and both characters feel they have a good chance of winning the fight and therefore don't run from each other, a highly unlikely situation. It simply restates Lucky's point.


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Hanktronic

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Recruiter

01-27-2010

Uh. To the original poster:



The math all looks exactly right. I have a few comments, though.

It is much easier to get crit % from items than crit damage. Crit damage only comes from infinity edge and sword of the occult. One is 4000 gold and the other takes kills/assist to improve and loses 1/3 of it's value on each death. Each point of crit makes crit damage more valuable and each point of crit damage makes crit more valuable, so having the more difficult one to start with and building through the easier one gives you more of an advantage for more of the game. Also, end game, it is inarguable that crit damage % is better because that 64% crit isn't very difficult to get (especially considering the elixer of agility which any crit damage runer should buy).


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cybrcld

Senior Member

01-27-2010

lol, gah, i love it. Sad thing is, I actually understand it all >.<. Now what would insanely impress me would be the formula depicting damage increase, crit chance, crit damage increase, and attack speed. Then find the cheapest way to maximize efficiency per gold in item build. Lol, i've done 3 variable maximum points but, I wouldn't have any idea on how to do that one. I'm sure it's not too much different though.


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EnderTheXenocide

Junior Member

01-27-2010

I just wanted to clarify a point made earlier, based on the math.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthBaio View Post
I feel like MrLucky13 deserves 98 more cents so he has a full dollar. What he just said is a gamebreaker in this situation. Champions with higher attack speeds don't need as much crit chance, as their ability to crit is higher than champions who don't hit as often.
This just plain isn't true. The calculations I did are even MORE accurate for high AS champions, because the more attacks you get in, the more accurate it is to talk about your "average" damage per attack, over some time period. In other words, if you only attack one time, my formulas don't make sense. Either you'll crit... or you won't. But if you attack really fast, and you get in 10 attacks, then your damage output will start to line up better with the statistical average.

If you have a fast AS champion, then yes, you are likely to get a few crits off while attacking. But that doesn't change my calculations. The question at hand is, out of your 10 attacks, is it more important to get, say, 5 crits off for 300% damage or 7 crits off for 250% damage? (assuming 50% crit, 100% dmg boost, vs. 70% crit, 50% dmg boost). The calculations still hold. (Obviously, in this example, assuming 10 attacks, the first case gives 5*100% + 5*300% = 2,000% base dmg. The second case gives 3*100% + 7*250% = 2,050% base dmg.)


I also want to clarify, please don't misconstrue my personal preferences as some kind of "you're stupid if you don't get X runes." I'm just giving you the math. What you do with it, and what is most effective depends on your build, your champion selection, your masteries, your play style, etc.

I just wanted to give you all the math


As many people have mentioned, if you play a particular hero with a certain build, that gives you > 64% crit (before applying rune boosts) in most games, then I completely agree with you. Crit damage is the way to go. And if you are more concerned about being the most powerful late-game, then crit damage is the way to go, whereas if, like me, you are more concerned about establishing yourself early/mid game, then you might prefer crit chance over crit damage. If you're playing Shaco, crit damage is hands down the way to go!

Maybe one of these days I'll look into all the calculations with attack speed, damage, etc. But that sounds pretty nasty, so don't hold your breath! LOL


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EnderTheXenocide

Junior Member

01-27-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Psi21 View Post
In a realistic game I can get both the Infinity Edge and at least the Agility cloak and Zeal on my way to the Phantom Dancer.

Final realistic stats at the end game of a typical game:
+100% Crit damage
+68.2% Crit chance

You did note that at 64% crit chance 50% crit damage became more valuable. So in a realistic game would the mix of crit damage and crit percent I gave at the top be more valuable in a typical average game than 20% crit percent?
Yes, exactly! Now you're using my math to its fullest!
If your build gets you 68.2% crit chance, and only 4% of that comes from crit chance runes, then, if you are most concerned on your endgame stats, then yes, pumping crit damage is, mathematically, slightly more effective.

But until you reach that endgame stage, it will be slightly less effective. Its' a tradeoff.