Early Bloodthirster Build for Physical DPS Champions

Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

765Immortal

Senior Member

08-17-2009

Where I Started:
I started early building Bloodthirster by going Vampiric Scepter as my first item just from creative thought. No real reason. I just wanted to test it out and it has worked very well for me in most games.

This Thread's Intentions:
To share my insight on early building Bloodthirster (strictly by going Vampiric Scepter as first item), both pros and cons, and providing a central thread for the community to discuss early Bloodthirster builds for physical DPS champions and its pros and cons.

This is in no way a complete and end-all thread for early Bloodthirster builds, yet. I have no great understanding, and no wish for such understanding, of the formulas or diminishing returns that may or may not involve early Bloodthirster builds.

I wish for this thread to be somewhat participatory on the part of anyone who posts. I hope everyone shares their opinion and has more to say than generic "that's cool" or "that's bad" comments. I hope this thread encourages the community to investigate Bloodthirster builds and its effects early-late game so that the community can understand when early Bloodthirster builds can be most effective or riskiest.

Skill Level and Circumstance:
I would rank this build as extemely difficult for new players and extremely circumstantial. Do not go this build against teams consisting mainly of nuker, disabler, and/or ranged champions. The best matchup would be against a solo, melee physical DPS champion lane and with a disabler, ranged (physical or magic) DPS lanemate and yourself playing as a disabler, ranged physical DPS champion.

Why Build Early Bloodthirster:
There's a couple reasons why I like to build early Bloodthirster:

  1. Provides noticeably higher HP regen than other items early. This is given that your enemies do not try to hault your auto-attacking and that you are able to avoid their nukes.
  2. Provides some sick damage mid-game, when most other heroes have low-level recipe items.
  3. Makes jungling exponentially easier with most champions and opens early dragon opportunities.
Champions I've Tried:
Here's a list of the champions I've tried this build with:
  1. Ashe
  2. Twitch
  3. Soraka (just to be silly - it doesn't work)
  4. Jax
  5. Yi
Pros:
Going along with the pros implied in the last few sections, Bthirster is amazing mid-game. +100 physical damage and 25% lifesteal when fully farmed. If you manage to get a full Bthirster, then you'll most likely have 4 champion kills or 40 creep/neutral kills. Depending on what you've farmed, you'll most likely be sitting on a decent amount of gold. That gold can be used to purchase your boots and other items.

Unless you're struggling to survive, 40 creep/neutral kills will most likely come easy with the Bthirster. When I farm a full Bthirster early, I will most likely be doing 140-160 damage. With a full Bthirster, I'll be doing 190-210 damage. So, creeps will go fast and you will rarely fall below full HP -- given you're not ganked or harassed by enemy champions.

Your crits will hit hard. 300+ crits gaurenteed on squishy heroes. That's at least 25% of most caster's HP mid-game.

Cons:
If you go this build, you have committed yourself to auto-attacking creeps until level 6. Unless you can manage to avoid every harass attempt your enemy laners throw at you, then all you need to do is last-hit to farm the rest of the Bthirster.

This build encourages pushing the enemy turret. How does it encourage this and why is this bad? Let's say that you're unable to avoid every harass attempt by your enemies. Unless your runebook is Vigor stacked, the only way you'll be regaining HP effectively is through auto-attacking. So, you're going to have to auto-attack creeps to get your HP back up. That means you're going to always be on the offensive and most likely push harder than your enemies. While pushing an enemy turret isn't exactly a bad thing, it is most certainly bad in the case of building an early Bthirster. Why is that?

First, your enemies have full advantage of ganking you when you push their turret. Second, your enemy laners have their turret to their advantage, making it easier for them to harass you and not being retaliated. Third, you won't be able to auto-attack creeps or last-hit creeps effectively near enemy turrets. That means, you can't farm and you can't get your HP back up if you push their tower hard.

So, what can you do when you push the enemy turret? You can sit at your turret, but you lose EXP.

Works Best With:
Ashe. Plain and simple because she is a farming guru, with long-range, physical DPS and an AOE slow (if you get 1 level into Frost Arrow and 1 level into Volley). She kites well. She also has a great passive which increases her crit chance % over time. That means if you do somehow get harassed, just wait until her crit chance % is around 100% and then attack something for 100+ damage and receive 10% of that in HP. However, I rarely need to build her passive crit chance for getting a big HP steal because she kites well enough that if the enemy laner comes your way, just keep orb-walking him/her until they finally run back, in which case you keep orb-walking them as they run back until they come back again for you, and then you keep orb-walking them until they run back for good. If it's 2 champions you're trying to kite, use Volley on them, and then switch between the two while orb-walking.

Runes and Masteries:
If you feel you need a crutch to this build, stack a Vigor book. A friend of mine said the highest now is like 22HP/5. That's pretty solid. Basically, that means you won't have to worry about auto-attacking for HP, even if you are harassed. Just keep last-hitting creeps and farming.

Riskier, but feasible rune builds would be Strength, Vitality, Alacrity (in that order).

A rune book stacked with Strength gives around +12 physical damage (if i recall correctly). Negating armor redux, that's an additional 1 HP per attack. But, more importantly that's an additional 12 PHYSICAL DAMAGE at level 1. It makes last-hitting and harassing much more easier. Although, it doesn't scale per level, I can guarentee you'll be one of the hardest-hitting champions in the session for early-mid game.

A stacked Vitality book is good because you get an additional ~45 HP per level, starting at level 1. That means by the time your enemies turn to more aggressive means, you'll be around level 4-5 and with an additional 180-225 HP to buffer their harassing (assuming they are not overly aggressive at level 1).

A stacked Alacrity book (altough I've never tried it) may be of some use when it comes to kiting with Ashe or when trying to regain HP after being harassed. Also, it maybe more of help later in the game than a stacked Strength book when hitting faster counts more than hitting harder.

If you're not Offense spec with this build, you might as well make a note that your chances are slim. That being said, I've not tried early Bthirster without going Offense spec. The only other spec I could see of working would be Defense, but that would cause slight hinderance for late-game DPS.

Conclusion:
I've seen early Bthirster prove for epic win and also for epic fail. Use this build wisely and you will most likely carry the team. This build is best for ranged, physical DPS champions who have a disable. This build can also be used for jungling, but it is recommended that the champion used in this way should be one that is not an item-dependent jungler and is proficient at jungling.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Gimpb

Senior Member

08-17-2009

When to get lifesteal is a topic I tend to struggle quite a bit with.

It seems like early on it doesn't do jack if you just get the scepter so you want to get it up to one of the 15-20% items quickly but your choice are to go badge thus comitting to a support item later or save for one of the more expensive ones.



Although, having a built up bloodthirster in the early game could tear up some tanks and such pretty nicely. I'll have to try it sometime, perhaps trist could get away with it since the mana isn't a big deal and scepter could be enough regen for a bit.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Frozt

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

The Council

08-17-2009

It's a decent build. Even on the ranged champions, this allows them to do Dragon and get the Lizard buff, as well as get their stacks up early on during a farming phase.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Gattsu

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Member

08-17-2009

I don't like this at all. You could get more damage for less going with a Black Cleaver and then just grabbing malady or starks or soemthing for lifesteal. I just think more early game damage matters more than lifesteal!


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Blightning

Junior Member

08-17-2009

I tried this twice tonight with Sion and it was awesome
First Game I wet 14/4/7 and the second was 5/4/8. I know Sion isn't a carry so these are good numbers for me
The early Vamp. Scepter plus Sion's bonus damage kinda negate eachother, but you deal massive damage right away. It's a nice first blood.
I use a 1/21/8 mastery build and my summoner skills were exhaust and heal. I'll test this some more, but it seems like a great strategy to let your carries farm


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

765Immortal

Senior Member

08-18-2009

Looks like it worked, Gimpb. HAHAHAHAHA!


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Gimpb

Senior Member

08-19-2009

Hehe yeah it worked alright in that game but I did really miss those phange slows. Such a tough decision.

It does make trist pretty untouchable in a heads up fight in the mid game. I certainly found myself getting more agressive than usual (and stepped in some deep @#$% a few more times than I would have liked).


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

IDefinitely

Member

11-03-2011

You know you play dota when...

Quote:
Originally Posted by 765Immortal View Post
Where I Started:
However, I rarely need to build her passive crit chance for getting a big HP steal because she kites well enough that if the enemy laner comes your way, just keep orb-walking him/her until they finally run back, in which case you keep orb-walking them as they run back until they come back again for you, and then you keep orb-walking them until they run back for good. If it's 2 champions you're trying to kite, use Volley on them, and then switch between the two while orb-walking.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

ComradeHX

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

11-03-2011

You know when you are NECROPOSTING when the last post was made in

Quote:
08-19-2009, 05:14 PM
About the original post: bloodthirster is looking like a really good item on certain ranged dps champion that has pretty decent burst damage scaling on Q and R...