Teemo VS Tristana Comparison

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Nastharl

Member

01-26-2010

One other thing, Double posts YAY.

Trist doesn't want an infin edge unless you're stacking other crit. Black cleaver synergizes much better w/ her AS. at lvl 18 you can get cleaver to full stacks in about 3 seconds. it reduces your opponents EHP by 60%. This means they die almost twice as fast. If you have a lot of physical on your team, cleaver is DEFINATLY the way to go, as your whole team can maul them.


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Nastharl

Member

01-26-2010

TTTTRIPLE POST.

Do not underestimate the ability of explosive shots active to harras and get kills. It hits for 100 dmg at lvl 1. This is better than any 1 thing teemo can do, though it does have a longer CD. For super fun. Explosive trynd during his ult. When it wears off he falls over. Half healing will reduce his end of ult heal, and then the dot ticks and he dies. Good Times.


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Klazzix

Senior Member

01-26-2010

Trist is a she, Teemo is an it.


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Valduran

Senior Member

01-26-2010

As a fairly experienced Tristana player I can say with a fair amount of confidence that Tristana is hands down the better character if she is played properly and given the time to develop. In terms of what they bring to the team, Teemo has a slight advantage early on with the utility of his mushrooms and the usefulness of blind in early team fights, but that advantage slowly decreases the longer the game goes on as Tristana's damage starts to surpass Teemo's by a large amount and the map control metagame simplifies to the point that mushrooms no longer serve as huge of a purpose.

In the end, Tristana is much more likely to win a game for her team for 3 reasons:

1) More Damage. I haven't played other heroes enough to speak with great authority on the matter, but from what experience I do have I can say that I have NEVER EVER seen a character capable of dishing out as much damage as my Tristana with my item build. As far as I know, when fully built she literally has the most lethal auto-attack in the game, once you factor in the advantage of extreme range. With a complete item set I am generally critting for around 800 on medium-armor endgame heroes, which needless to say, finishes off most heroes in little more than 2 seconds of concentrated fire. Triple, or even Quadra kills become highly possible, and all that is required is a simple right-click.
The bottom line being that a character capable of wiping the entire enemy team in a matter of seconds from an extreme range is far more useful than one that lugs around a toolbox. People don't realize it, but in some ways she actually surpasses Twitch as a ranged DPS, considering that she doesn't require stealth to be effective OR survive. Her auto-attack is much more deadly, and she is much less squishy and she much more reliable escape mechanisms. i.e. Tristana can't be negated by oracles. :P
I regularly eat enemy Twitches for breakfast late game.

Also, I haven't really seen people emphasize this obvious point, so I will: The primary advantage of Rapid Shot is the fact that it enables Tristana to completely free up 1 or 2 item slots that would normally have to be spent on attack speed. I believe this is the primary reason why her auto-attack is one of the most, if not THE most, deadly in the game.

2) More survivability. Rocket Jump + Flash basically means that Tristana should NEVER die. To my shame, I still usually die once or twice in a game against decent players, but most often it is simply because I made a mistake. Rocket Jump and Flash together are usually enough to get you out of any kind of dangerous situation that wasn't induced by absolute stupidity, and even many that are. More survivability means less gold for the enemy team, and more options for taking calculated risks.

3) Buster Shot. An incredibly useful ultimate that Teemo can only dream of. It's usefulness is basically only limited by your imagination and reflexes. The sheer utility of this seemingly simple skill gives a huge boost to what otherwise seems to be a fairly low utility character. Used properly, in the right circumstances it can practically guarantee a 5v4 fight in your favor by either knocking an enemy into your team, or by blasting them through a wall and out of the battle. Much more effective as a disabler than blind, at the very least it knocks the enemy back far enough that the time they take to run back is about the same duration as a blind. And of course, it is also an escape mechanism for your and any friendlies who happen to be fleeing right next to you, and it is much more effective, reliable, and quick than trying to lay a mushroom in the path of a pursuer.


Also, in a 1v1 fight, Tristana still wins. If Teemo blinds and cleanse is down, she can simply take the downtime to skillfully use rocket jump and buster shot to reposition the fight, after which Blind is gone, Teemo is down some health, and she is free to auto-attack him to oblivion in about 1.5 seconds. Teemo is also unlikely to escape due to a good Tristana always having a Lizard buff on, or failing that, Frozen Mallet.


TL;DR version: Teemo definitely has more utility early game, and arguably even end-game, but it is not nearly enough to make up for Tristana's insane death-dealing capabilities. I would also pick Tristana as one of the most likely characters to turn a turtle strategy into a victory due to her later-game ability to easily cause a complete enemy wipe at one of your turrets.


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leonhart83

Senior Member

01-26-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Valduran View Post

1) More Damage. I haven't played other heroes enough to speak with great authority on the matter, but from what experience I do have I can say that I have NEVER EVER seen a character capable of dishing out as much damage as my Tristana with my item build.
What is your item build?

What summoner spells?

What runes?

BTW thanks heaps for the response. Would love to have a Teemo vs your Trist for ****s and giggles.


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Valduran

Senior Member

01-26-2010

Item build:

Start with Vampiric Scepter, not because it's cool, but because you'll probably need it at higher level play to stay in the harassing game without frequent trips back to base.

After that I usually go Berserker Boots, and I used to build Phage simultaneously or before boots, but I'm currently experimenting with getting BF Sword immediately after boots. I've noticed that it definitely helps to compensate for Tristana's mid-game weakness, but also makes it harder to gank without the Phage slow proc, so you will need lizard buff for this to work.

Anyway, build the BF Sword into an Infinity Edge ASAP. There is pretty much nothing that benefits Tristana more than IE(assuming you will be adding more crit in the form of Phantom Dancer or another IE) with the possible exception of Black Cleaver. After that, work on either a Zeal or another BF Sword. Black Cleaver is the next big item you'll want to build. After that the order doesn't really matter, but I generally place priority on more BF Swords. ^^

Final Build looks like this:

Berserker Boots
Bloodthirster
Black Cleaver
Infinity Edge
Phantom Dancer
Frozen Mallet, Banshee's Veil, or another Infinity Edge

From my experimentation and research this is the best Tristana build possible that I know of so far. As you can see, the primary focus is on attack damage, with a secondary focus on crit. Attack Speed is VERY secondary. Never ever prioritize attack speed. I tried that for awhile and I soon learned that it was a terrible idea that wastes TONS of Tristana's amazing potential.

For Runes I have half reds in Armor Pen. the other half in Crit %. Yellows = Dodge. Blues = Crit %. 2 Quints in Armor Pen. 1 in Crit %, but I might experiment with more crit chance. The thing is, experts will often say that Armor Pen. and Crit Dmg. are the most effective offensive runes, and they are... late game. My theory is that by the time Tristana gets to late game her damage is so rediculous it doesn't matter what runes you have, so it's best to build her for early game where she is a bit weaker than some heroes. So I get enough Armor Pen. to negate most of a level 1 character's armor(about 20) and then put the rest in Crit %. More Armor Pen. might be a good idea, but the ability to crit alot early game is devastating, so I'm trying that direction for now.

Summoner spells I'm a bit divided on. Flash is a definite for me, Rocket Jump doesn't always get you the position you want, or sometimes it puts you into a position that you later need to escape from, so having Flash as backup is essential unless your playing skills are godlike. For the other one, it's a choice between Cleanse, Exhaust, and Teleport.
I prefer Teleport, but Exhaust can really make the difference in winning early battles and getting the head start that Tristana really needs to shine, so it's probably the better choice if you are capable of using it effectively. Cleanse is generally NOT NEEDED if you play smart, but for almost everyone it's impossible to play smart 100% of the time, so this is probably the most suggested second spell for a new Tristana player.

EDIT: For more great Tristana tips, check out the posts by Noctred, ctidesm, and EasymodeX in the 'Advanced Tristana' thread I created in this forum. You can find it here:
https://www.leagueoflegends.com/boar...ad.php?t=50056

Please note that I still had alot to learn when I first created the thread, so some of my posts may slightly contradict what I am saying now. ^^

PS: Now that I think about it, I'm pretty sure I've played against you while you were trying out Tristana. xD


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Klazzix

Senior Member

01-26-2010

Twitch can dish out more damage, probably..


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Nastharl

Member

01-26-2010

@ Valduran - Consider working in an execalling. Its not DIRECTLY helpful, but it'll shut down a lot of otherwise annoying ass situations (allister permaheal, soraka, ANYONE w/ lifesteal. Also the free crit is nice.)

Tristana needs 1 AS item + boots and Nothing Else. the rest should all be dmg + survival.

If you're building crit, rush infin edge. If you're building flat dmg, rush a cleaver. Both are solid.


Also, Armor pen runes are better across the board. at lvl 1, lets say someone has 600 HP, and 30 armor. Thats relativly normal. that gives them ~ 780 EHP. Armor pen means you're reducing their armor by 23 passivly (w/ masteries). so you're reducing their HP by 138 hp right off the top. by midgame, lets say 1500 HP, arpen is burning through 345 HP. Thats 345 HP you no longer need to deal in damage. The more HP they have, the better and better arpen gets.

W/ very few crit items, just PD + IE + Base + masteries you're looking at 63% crit. You're going to be critting nonstop no matter what your runes do. Only now you need less shots to kill them, because the mitigation works better in your favor.

Cleaver + runes and things gives people effectivly 0 armor
This means you reduce their EHP by ~70%. where before you needed to deal 2550 true damage to kill a 1500 HP champ, you now need to deal 1500. Free 1k damage basically. Arpen is INCREDIBLY underrated.


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Valduran

Senior Member

01-26-2010

@Nastherl: I do sometimes use Exe Calling situationally, but generally explosive shot is adequate if there are only one or two annoying healers in the game. Shutting down life drain isn't terribly important with how fast Trist rips people apart, although I must admit, I can't say I'm 100% sure that Bloodthirster is that much more awesome, hehe.

Anyway, on the Armor Pen. vs. Crit %, I'm aware the Armor Pen. is very effective in all situations, however being "effective in all situations" doesn't necessarily make something the right choice. One thing to consider is that Armor Pen. only helps if the enemy's armor is equal or greater to your Armor Pen. value. If it is less then you are wasting rune slots. Since early game is so important and Tristana naturally excels at end-game, I want to focus on buffing up my early game as much as possible. Whether or not I'm going about that the right way still remains to be seen.

That being said, my advice to leonheart83 is that it might be better to listen to someone else on rune advice since I haven't reached level 30 yet and am still doing alot of experimentation. ^^


@Klazzix: Twitch can deal out more damage with his ultimate. However, his ultimate only lasts for a short time and is easily countered by skilled players. Tristana's auto-attacked can't be effectively countered without shutting Tristana down completely. I've never seen a Twitch deal more auto-attack damage than an equally geared Tristana, because like I said, Rapid Shot frees up item slots that other heroes have to waste on attack speed. In a team fight, I would honestly much rather have a Tristana on my team. For team fights, Twitch is a one-trick pony. (Although I must admit that it is a very effective trick, lol)
Overall, it's been a long time since I've been outperformed by a Twitch in team value and score. Twitch is just too easy to counter, and way too easy to kill for those that know how to counter him. I honestly wouldn't even consider him a high tier hero myself, although I know alot of people do.


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xrats

Senior Member

01-27-2010

I think they are totally different heroes with their pros and cons(as every hero on the game also?).


Early game the teemo is more useful in coop team.Tristana is weak early game.But once it goes late this changes.Tristana is one of the best late game heroes out there.


Teemo is more useful early and mid game but tristana has escape abilities so normally she ll die less.I think this is fair.Also,tristana has an ulti that can finishes enemies or push them in a direction so all your team can catch them and can also be used to save allies by pushing them back with its knockback ability.

Teemo has a nice ulti early on but not so good later.


I always use exhaust in tristana and ghost running.Exhaust is a must for defend and chasing enemies.If u see an enemy at low hp jump on him use exhaust open first skill.He will move so slow so he ll be unable to avoid the huge amount of damage you ll deal to him in so little time.If he has spells or heals to aid him then use your third skill to minus his healing abilities and cause him some extra finishing dmg.

If he still lives after all these(lol?) then use ghost running for some extra shots and finish him with your ulti.In the meantime,your second skill will be available for a second time.

Ghost running is very cool also.In many battles a jumb is simply not enough to escape.Ghost running saves u and has saved me from many deaths in games and also helps to chase enemies as well.


Both exhaust and ghost running can be used with variety to help u either chase or escape from enemies out there.


Another good option instead of ghost running is the tp.Pretty good to help u come to the battle quick and not lose xp and gold.Also,since tristana can kill low hp enemies fairly easy u can watch minimap and tp where you see weak enemies.Allows for easy kills and gold.One other use is the following.When enemy team pushes and your team can defend see the minimap.There are many situations where your creeps push into the enemy base as the opponents push into yours.Tp there at once and with high attack speed and dmg u ll have begin pushing.In no time you can destroy a tower or/and inhibitor and tp back to your base.If the enemies ignore you continue all the way in.If not(the most common and logical)either enemy team will send one player back to defend or all they ll come.At any case your team will be in a 4v4 fair status battle and u can fight the defending enemy or just flee back so it ll be 4v5.Your team will have defend and you ll have destroyed some enemy buildings.Dont worry,you have so many escape abilities so you wont die by enemies as you push.A very good tactic in late games.

Dont forget,a late game tristana can destroy enemy buildings in a matter of seconds.Use that to your advantage to make the enemy let your base alone and force him to defend.



As for the items,i have tried both attack speed and dmg.Tristana has many options for items.If you can use them well u can counter everything in the game.One very useful item that i make first in most cases is wits end.It gives attack speed,mana burn and its cheap also.Tristanas long range allows her to spam the enemy with iteam pretty good.Mages will hurt,so will do many heroes out there who depend on mana and their skills to play well and deploy their strategies.

At any case observe the enemies out there and decide which items are the best for each situation.For example,if the enemies have heroes with no mana pool dont make wits end.If they have tanks with big hp and armor then go for last whisper(40% armor penetration).Also,another item(dont remember its name right now) gives you an ability where enemies cant dodge your attacks.Pretty good to negate dodging items many tanks will have out there.

The classic item build refers to high dmg items.Its good but use your judgement to alter it in ways to help u against specific enemies each time.Dont search for a specific list of items to make each game.Every game is unique and nothing is set on stone.Also,dont be afraid to experiment.


Tristana playes well with her team and not alone.She can die very easily and many enemies can get close to u instantly and kill u.Use your team as a shield and spam the enemy with your long range behind them.If the enemy chases u jump back and run.Your team will punish them.If not,continue the pressure all the way out.Clever enemies will usually try to surround your team.If this happens stop attacking and change position asap to get new cover as your team will be rearranged to face the enemy.Only then start hit again when u ll be in safe distance.Also,you can use wards to see the enemy coming and avoid him easily by repositioning yourself.At any case the golden rule is:

STAY FAR FROM THE ENEMIES.

Your best lane allies are :

1)Slowers.With double slow from your jumbing u can take early kills this way.Stunners are ok also but slow is much better.

2)Healers.Dont help u take early kills but they keep u alive and they are useful vs a lot of opponents who spam u with dmg spells early on the game.Play defensive and keep pushing and farming.Eventually,u ll become stronger to face them later.If the game has many mages gets wits end.U ll spam them to death where they really hurt,MANA.Has worked for me many times.

3)Tanks.(Later in the game).The reasons here are obvious so i wont bother analyze it further.

Feel free to ask me anything u want.I ll be glad to help if i can.


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