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Fiddlesticks and Lichbane

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inept

Member

01-25-2010

the only non baddie in here is gun fu panda. do not stack AP on fiddle rofl..

typical build I run

mana crystal + 2 health pots
catalyst
catalyst
lvl 1 boots
upgrade 1st catalyst to rod of ages
sorc boots
upgrade 2nd catalyst to banshee veil
void staff

game should be close to over by now but if not

rylai's can be good combined with the bouncing silence as it will also slow everyone

6th item depends on what you want, guardian angel is good on any character for those super long games or you can pick up abysmal sceptor if you have other casters on the team.


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GENERAL NUTBAKED

Senior Member

01-25-2010

Quote:
DaBaier:
From the AP Ratios post:

Fiddlesticks-The Harbinger of Doom
Drain 0.4 (each second, 2.4 over 6 seconds)
Dark Wind 0.35 (per hit, anywhere from 0.35 to 3.85)
Crowstorm 0.4 (each second, 2.0 over 5 seconds)

Great ratios imo...


yo karthus has worse ratios, find one person who thinks karthus shouldn't stack AP and you will have found an idiot.


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inept

Member

01-26-2010

2 DoT spells vs 4 spells that you will use once in a teamfight? kinda different disaster.

and you really shouldnt stack AP on karthus or he looks underpowered as usual like most people think he is. he needs to be built as a tanky caster and get in the middle of the opposing team so defile hits for full damage on everyone. its a never ending crowstorm if used correctly.

for karthus
doran ring + hp pot to start
build rod of ages (sapphire --> catalyst --> rod)
build sorc boots
build archangel's staff(designed for karthus basically, you can max this in a couple minutes by just spamming whenever there isnt anything going on)
build banshee veil

6th item is dependent on the game, frozenheart/abysmal sceptor depending on if they are caster/DPS heavy

you will get all your items in every game basically as karthus farms so well


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CTHDRL

Senior Member

01-26-2010

Most of these replies are silly.

Lichbane is clearly a waste at high level play. Any arguement thereof is not referencing high level play; thus less valuable because high leveled play encompasses a larger range of skill, technique and understanding of the game.



Fiddle's job is to get huge amounts of debuffs, and totally **** with the enemy team at the beginning of a team fight. Which there are many at high level Elos. A good Fiddle pretty much warranty's you a win if your team knows their up from down.


You cannot "wait in the bushes" to gank some straggler, because there are rarely stragglers at the levels of play; where lichbane is a total waste.





If you are playing such an incompetent team, that you can afford to auto-attack "in between" your casts, let alone space them out every 3 seconds. By all means get lichbane.


But enjoy it while it lats, beacuse being able to do that successfully won't last long, because you will probably be bumped out of that atrocious Elo after you win that match.


90% of the posts in here so far are incomplete.

"AP stacking Fiddle is great" When your enemies are ****ing stupid/incomptent.

Just because something works against stupid people, does not mean it's good. I've made Fiddle physical Attack Speed and did well against idiots. This does not mean it is a valid tactic beyond playing with idiots.



Choosing to stack AP over , Cooldown/Magic Resist Redux is LOLOLOL


Because stacking AP doesn't work against good players; you will be destroyed in the teamfight and have nothing to show for it. Because you didn't even debuff the enemy team.


For clarification I am referencing the "Who can bait and camp bushes the hardest" levels of play. Not "We all laned until level 16" levels of play.


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Grovel

Senior Member

01-26-2010

My biggest question with Fiddle is the ideal starting items. I've seen rush boots, I've seen rush RoA, Now I've seen stack Catalysts.

I know, ideal you want RoA as early as possible, but a bootless fiddle Crow Storming into a team with all lvl2 boots can be a disaster.

Undecided with Doran's Ring, seems like a good idea, but Dark Wind's CD is long enough mana isn't really a problem spamming it, Fiddles gets enough range early that he shouldn't be harassed much so the heal doesn't feel necessary, and, as the rest of the thread points out, 10AP isn't doing much for you.


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meorah

Member

01-26-2010

I'd never get lich on fiddle, unless I get stuck with 4 scrubs who can't push towers and am playing against 5 scrubs who won't push back.

Then MAYBE I'd get it as 6th item purely for pushing purposes. Its not a top 6 fiddle item, so don't get it. abyssal, RoA, mejai, sorc boots, veil, glacial shroud, then stuff like guise/codex/soul shroud/rylai's if you mess up your item build countering the other team. All are better than lichbane.


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Kinney

Senior Member

01-26-2010

Pretty much the only AP item I get on Fiddle is Rylai's, and that's because it turns Dark Wind into an absolute beast of a spell in team fights since it will silence AND slow. The rest is all MRPen/CDR.


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Sunstrike

Member

01-26-2010

Quote:
DaBaier:
You claim AP is bad, why? Because its .4 for the most part? Life drain is .4/second * 6 seconds = 2.4. Dark wind is something like .35, but up to 11 hits of that at max rank. Crow Storm is .4/second * 5 seconds = 2. Fear is none of course. His coeff's are amazing unless you only get 1 "tick" of each spell, which is rare, wouldn't you say?

Why is Fiddle not a primary damage character? Ulti into a team fight with 400+ AP and improved rally, you are guarunteed kills! Add on a Rylai's and your now slowing and silencing their whole team with dark wind, while crowstorm blows them up (initial hit of crowstorm doing a slow also).



Original Topic: Lich Bane is an amazing item for Fiddle. If you auto attack between each spell, you damage is almost doubled. It is insanely good. I never get it as anything but the 6th item, and even then I dont always get it. Fiddle doesnt *need* it to be amazing, but if you do get it, it is amazing.


AP is never bad on any characters, it's just not quite the build many people think is the most effective for fiddles.

haunting guise->sorc/boots of speed->abysal->survivability is what I usually use, and it has so far been quite effective. With your passive (MR reduction), abyssals MR reduction
and the magic penetration from your items you will be getting most people down to around 0 magic resistance. So even without AP you still do a TON of damage.

From there I typically pick up a banshees veil and other misc survival items so that they other team can't CC and kill me instantly, allowing me to initiate fights and generally cause more havoc and get away scott free.

Sure AP stacking is great and will do much more damage, but it's also prone to the whole "hey theres a glass cannon fiddle lets stun him and kill him in 2 seconds" thing.


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Rorxzer

Junior Member

01-26-2010

Quote:
Grovel:
My biggest question with Fiddle is the ideal starting items. I've seen rush boots, I've seen rush RoA, Now I've seen stack Catalysts.


Not going to claim that this is the "ideal" starting way but as I've found I have been using Fiddle a lot more recently, at least until I get The Void Walker later today, this is how I plan it;

["->" = Finish Recipe before getting next item]

Starting,

First Item: Amplifying Tome -> Kage's Lucky Pick
Seond Item: Amplifying Tome -> Kage's Lucky Pick
Third Item: Boots of Speed -> Sorcerer's Shoes
Fourth Item: Catalyst the Protector
Fifth Item: Blasting Wand
Sixth Item: N/A

Then,

First Item: Kage's Lucky Pick
Seond Item: Kage's Lucky Pick
Third Item: Sorcerer's Shoes
Fourth Item: Catalyst the Protector + Blasting Wand -> Rod of Ages
Fifth Item: Amplifying Tome
Sixth Item: Meki Pendant

Then,

First Item: Kage's Lucky Pick
Seond Item: Kage's Lucky Pick
Third Item: Sorcerer's Shoes
Fourth Item: Rod of Ages
Fifth Item: Amplifying Tome + Meki Pendant -> Fiendish Codex
Sixth Item: Blasting Wand

Then,

First Item: Kage's Lucky Pick + Fiendish Codex -> Deathfire Grasp
Seond Item: Kage's Lucky Pick
Third Item: Sorcerer's Shoes
Fourth Item: Rod of Ages
Fifth Item: Blasting Wand
Sixth Item: Blasting Wand

Then,

First Item: Deathfire Grasp
Seond Item: Kage's Lucky Pick
Third Item: Sorcerer's Shoes
Fourth Item: Rod of Ages
Fifth Item: : Blasting Wand + Blasting Wand -> Zhonya's Ring
Sixth Item: Amplifying Tome -> Void Staff

Then after all that you have this.

First Item: Deathfire Grasp
Seond Item: Kage's Lucky Pick
Third Item: Sorcerer's Shoes
Fourth Item: Rod of Ages
Fifth Item: : Zhonya's Ring
Sixth Item: Void Staff

Now Kage's Lucky Pick is sold for the very last item after saving up gold for whatever is last wanted.

Options that are good are

Another Deathfire Grasp
Another Sorcerer's Shoes
Mejai's Soulstealer
Rylai's Sceptre
Banshee's Veil

Personally I think the best of the options are Mejai's Soulstealer or Banshee's Veil as either of these two will be great. Banshee's Veil for the block and Mejai's Soulstealer for the kills and assists.

Opinions on this are welcome.

*Note
For Spells I Go With Ignite And Teleport.

Quote:
Undecided with Doran's Ring, seems like a good idea, but Dark Wind's CD is long enough mana isn't really a problem spamming it, Fiddles gets enough range early that he shouldn't be harassed much so the heal doesn't feel necessary, and, as the rest of the thread points out, 10AP isn't doing much for you.


Doran's Ring = No, Just No...


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DaGhost

Senior Member

01-26-2010

Quote:
Sunstrike:
AP is never bad on any characters, it's just not quite the build many people think is the most effective for fiddles.

haunting guise->sorc/boots of speed->abysal->survivability is what I usually use, and it has so far been quite effective. With your passive (MR reduction), abyssals MR reduction
and the magic penetration from your items you will be getting most people down to around 0 magic resistance. So even without AP you still do a TON of damage.

From there I typically pick up a banshees veil and other misc survival items so that they other team can't CC and kill me instantly, allowing me to initiate fights and generally cause more havoc and get away scott free.

Sure AP stacking is great and will do much more damage, but it's also prone to the whole "hey theres a glass cannon fiddle lets stun him and kill him in 2 seconds" thing.


you and i run the same build.

I love the guy who thinks there are never any stragglers in high level play. Because all high level play games are filled with tanks and healers whom all make sure they never die.

High rank games are notorious for people who WILL flee when they get lower in hp because they know when they are down.
Also Fiddle doesn't need mejai's to roll your super elite 5 man lvl 30 pro squad. He gets more than enough pen to make you MR useless and cranks a nice crowstorm with flash for just in case needs and he fears your CC.

He also has team mates who are messing you ish up while you take yummy amounts of magic damage from standing near him.


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