Fiddlesticks and Lichbane

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Airazor

Junior Member

01-25-2010

I know a downy guy who gets lichbane on his fiddle***** thinks hell hard irl.

I think its a stupid item to get on most casters, especially fiddle*****

opinions?


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DaGhost

Senior Member

01-25-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Airazor View Post
I know a downy guy who gets lichbane on his fiddle***** thinks hell hard irl.

I think its a stupid item to get on most casters, especially fiddle*****

opinions?
Lichbane is fine on Fiddle. just not a rush choice but definitely a 4-6th item. Fiddle's goal is to rape with Drain and Crowstorm. While lichbane will be wasted on drain, it will be highly effective on the Crowstorm Fear and Darkwind combo that will result in ganks. Lichbane works on people who have lots of ap to make their attack hit like brick houses so Rye and Annie could use it. BTW Fiddle likes the movement speed increase. Otherwise Lichbane is AP sion's actual weapon of choice


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Zohariel

Senior Member

01-25-2010

Fiddle likes AP, mana and movement speed. With Lichbane his autoattack is now a nuke, a good idea on any caster who doesn't have a way of pointing, clicking and doing 300 damage.


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gun fu panda

Senior Member

01-25-2010

Actually, AP is generally a waste of gold on fiddle as all of his skills are .4 AP/dmg scaling or worse. My order of item building is generally magic pen (guise/sorc boots/void staff if they're stacking MR) -> HP/MP (banshee's) -> Armor/MR depending on their team make up (usually frozen heart, guardian angel, or abyssal staff) -> Rylai's for the snare on abilities if the game lasts long enough. I usually end up with about 3.5k health and 100+ Armor/MR + resurrection if i get focused down early in the team fight. It's been working quite well.

Also, Fiddlesticks is NOT a primary damage character. He's not a carry who focuses on getting LOLPENTAKILZ with crowstorm. He's a CC/debuffer who softens up their team with crowstorm. Dark wind destroys the other team's ability to fight back against yours, fear wreaks havoc on their carry's ability to engage, and drain keeps you alive while you pulse crow storm, which keeps their team from engaging properly. Fiddle is not Kassadin, or Anivia, or Annie. He's a CC'er.

Summary: Lichbane sucks unless you're thinking 6th item. Even then there's better choices.


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DaBaier

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Senior Member

01-25-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by gun fu panda View Post
Actually, AP is generally a waste of gold on fiddle as all of his skills are .4 AP/dmg scaling or worse. My order of item building is generally magic pen (guise/sorc boots/void staff if they're stacking MR) -> HP/MP (banshee's) -> Armor/MR depending on their team make up (usually frozen heart, guardian angel, or abyssal staff) -> Rylai's for the snare on abilities if the game lasts long enough. I usually end up with about 3.5k health and 100+ Armor/MR + resurrection if i get focused down early in the team fight. It's been working quite well.

Also, Fiddlesticks is NOT a primary damage character. He's not a carry who focuses on getting LOLPENTAKILZ with crowstorm. He's a CC/debuffer who softens up their team with crowstorm. Dark wind destroys the other team's ability to fight back against yours, fear wreaks havoc on their carry's ability to engage, and drain keeps you alive while you pulse crow storm, which keeps their team from engaging properly. Fiddle is not Kassadin, or Anivia, or Annie. He's a CC'er.

Summary: Lichbane sucks unless you're thinking 6th item. Even then there's better choices.
You claim AP is bad, why? Because its .4 for the most part? Life drain is .4/second * 6 seconds = 2.4. Dark wind is something like .35, but up to 11 hits of that at max rank. Crow Storm is .4/second * 5 seconds = 2. Fear is none of course. His coeff's are amazing unless you only get 1 "tick" of each spell, which is rare, wouldn't you say?

Why is Fiddle not a primary damage character? Ulti into a team fight with 400+ AP and improved rally, you are guarunteed kills! Add on a Rylai's and your now slowing and silencing their whole team with dark wind, while crowstorm blows them up (initial hit of crowstorm doing a slow also).



Original Topic: Lich Bane is an amazing item for Fiddle. If you auto attack between each spell, you damage is almost doubled. It is insanely good. I never get it as anything but the 6th item, and even then I dont always get it. Fiddle doesnt *need* it to be amazing, but if you do get it, it is amazing.


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DaBaier

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Senior Member

01-25-2010

From the AP Ratios post:

Fiddlesticks-The Harbinger of Doom
Drain 0.4 (each second, 2.4 over 6 seconds)
Dark Wind 0.35 (per hit, anywhere from 0.35 to 3.85)
Crowstorm 0.4 (each second, 2.0 over 5 seconds)

Great ratios imo...


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Fbsunny

Senior Member

01-25-2010

The reason Lichbane isn't that great is that straight stacking AP on fiddle isn't that good. Although the AP ratio's aren't horrible, they just aren't that great when compared to the starting damage of his spells. You also need to be able to take a bit of damage if you expect to survive enough to have Crowstorm last for 5s without you dieing. This means that you may get around 300 AP, but you prolly won't have the 600AP others can get.

The other thing is that you often will not auto attack in between each of your spells, or cast your spells 3s apart for that matter. A usual scenario goes something like, start casting Crowstorm, get in and cast fear on their carry, Dark Wind a target, then start draining the carry. This will all happen in 2-4s, and you won't cast again for 10s. Not only that but you might not even get any auto attacks in since you will be draining after casting your other spells anyways.


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gun fu panda

Senior Member

01-25-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaBaier View Post
From the AP Ratios post:

Fiddlesticks-The Harbinger of Doom
Drain 0.4 (each second, 2.4 over 6 seconds)
Dark Wind 0.35 (per hit, anywhere from 0.35 to 3.85)
Crowstorm 0.4 (each second, 2.0 over 5 seconds)

Great ratios imo...
That sounds great in theory, but in practice is falls apart against a decent team. Fiddle creates chaos, that's his purpose. You will rarely get the full benefit of crowstorm, dark wind, or drain. If you do, the other team fails and you can run around with 6 boots of speed. You benefit most from a few magic pen items (to try to get their MR negative with your passive) and survivability (to survive the stun beat down you WILL receive from a half decent team when you pop in).


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Trollbone

Junior Member

01-25-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by gun fu panda View Post
That sounds great in theory, but in practice is falls apart against a decent team. Fiddle creates chaos, that's his purpose. You will rarely get the full benefit of crowstorm, dark wind, or drain. If you do, the other team fails and you can run around with 6 boots of speed. You benefit most from a few magic pen items (to try to get their MR negative with your passive) and survivability (to survive the stun beat down you WILL receive from a half decent team when you pop in).

Lol gunfu u are definitly playing it wrong, he is a great ganker, and if u have a decent team yes u will get the full benefit of crowstorm.
Wait in the bush and pop it or wait for a tank to initiate and go for it, so much versality, especially with a junglestick.

And no the other teams does not fail if they happen to be in a crowstorm, like u dont fail if u happen t be in nunu ultimate. Sometimes other team play better, u play better, have a great position, ect..

No, the number one think to work as fiddle is the positionning of him and ure ult. Be patient and wait the good moment. Its with practice that you will master that.

Fiddle is the twitch of AP

As for me i go

Doran ring + health pot
Mejai soulstealer
Sorceress shoes
Banshee veil
Rod of ages
Zonya ring or the MP rod


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DaGhost

Senior Member

01-25-2010

I have to weigh in on these anti ap talkers.

Fiddle is definitely an ap god, stacking ap with a little bit of MR reduction/pen will result in many many ganks

Drain and Crowstrom may not have Sion 1:1 but the dps they deal is bonkers. I have had crowstorms that are 500 damage ticks and same for drain.

The reason they have low ap values is because the damage is applied consecutively over a long time.

Crowstorm Fear Drain and you will be killing at least 2-3 people. Fear is awesome with drain for 1v1 and fear during CS, well its like free kills.


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