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Caster versus Physical DPS

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Firellius

Senior Member

02-12-2011

In essence? Physical DPS >>>>>>>>>>>> Caster. I'll try to explain.

Similar roles
Casters and Physical DPS serve the same purpose. To deal Damage. So to see which one is better, the most important thing to notice is their survivability and their damage output. This is where problems arise.

Armor vs. Magic Resistance
Conceptually, Magic Resistance is to mages what Armor is to Physical DPS, right?
This is not the case.

Ways to deal with Armor
1) Black Cleaver. Up to 45 Armor reduction.
2) Last Whisper. 40% Armor Penetration.
3) Bypass via Madred's Bloodrazor
4) Bypass via Sword of the Divine
5) Bypass via item active, such as Hextech Gunblade.
6) Brutalizer. 15 Armor Penetration.
7) Youmuu's Ghostblade. 20 Armor Penetration.

Ways to deal with Magic Resistance
1) Void Staff. 40% Magic Penetration.
2) Malady. (DPS ITEM) Up to 24 MR reduction.
3) Abyssal Scepter. 20 MR reduction.
4) Haunting Guise. 20 Magic Penetration.

As you can see, the DPS has a massive bonus here. Not only does he have more methods, he also bypasses MR through Malady. Especially KogMaw notices this. Bioarcane Barrage with Madred's and Malady? That hurts.

AP vs. AD

AP path to damage

AP -> Ratio (usually decrease) -> Cooldowns (decrease) -> MR (decrease) -> damage

AD path to damage

AD -> Attack speed (increase) -> Criticals (increase) -> Armor (decrease) -> damage.

You notice that AP, in comparison to AD, is pretty pointless. The heavy reductions applied before it does damage make AP lose a lot of value. AD on the other hand gets two increases before armor is applied. And then you can counter armor better than AP can counter MR. So yes, you might get numerically more AP, but your damage is going to be less.

Armor vs. Magic Resistance and HP
So you got 100 extra HP? The DPS is not bothered. It takes him half a second longer to kill you.

The mage on the other hand has to watch you run off with 100 HP. First off, he couldn't give chase, even if he wanted to. His movespeed lies between 310 and 300. (Exception is Malzahar) And even if he could keep up with you, all his abilities are on cooldown.

Extra HP is essentially a second counter to magic damagers. This is why mages can't kill DPS. In the 7 seconds that were added by the 300 HP, the DPS kills the mage.

Early Game
So this is where the mage shines? Afraid not. You see, mages actually don't have high base damage. It's either average, or even low. Compare it with Pantheon for example. Or, for added fun, Irelia.

So then, it must be that they can spam their abilities right? Definitely not. Doing that limits you to getting a mana regen item. Usually Doran's ring. And the shield beats the ring. Yes, mages can harass a bit better after all. They have extensive range. But they also can't take the harass. While they might deal a bit more damage, they have to retreat a lot faster. Overall, a mage's early game is played from a safe distance, but one slip up costs you your game. If you make a mistake as a DPS, it's much more forgiving because you recover your health faster. (Because you probably started with some HP regen or Lifesteal)

So essentially...
The role of a mage is either not dealing damage, or they're just obsolete. But what other role could they have? They're not tanks and they're not CC masters. They don't move faster than anyone else, and they don't support. It has to be the damage.

But the DPS far outshines them. I've played a lot of mages for a long time. Essentially, from day 1 till about a week ago, 80% of my games I played a mage. And it was tough. I was either gonna get carried or fed or else there would be no win. Now I play KogMaw, and I burst better than I used to. MBR + BB makes for amazing damage on every hit. I immobilise my enemies by right clicking and then finish them off in seconds. Even long chases go well for me, with a powerful ult every .6 seconds.

tl;dr
Mages are worse than physical DPS because HP is a counter to burst, and Armor is a lot easier to get around.


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Firellius

Senior Member

02-12-2011

bump.


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Shaella

Senior Member

02-12-2011

Yup


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Lunek

Recruiter

02-12-2011

If your thread will be forgotten due to endless silly qq spam- cheer up, this is lol forum.

Good read btw. Mages are highly limited due to their cds.


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Basquiat

Member

02-12-2011

Deathfire ~ Grasp


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kthnxbai

Recruiter

02-12-2011

AP scales much much better than AD


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Neofederalist

Senior Member

02-12-2011

heh?

If nothing else, they're useful in the variety. If you have an entire team of physical dps, as your post indicates is optimal, the opponents only have to stack armor. Including mages either requires the opponents to spread out their resources (which is good for everyone on your team), or to prioritize one, in which case the other category will just tear them apart.

I'm also confused as to why you claim mages don't have good CC. Lux: Double Snare, Morgana: Snare, AOE stun ult if used properly. Veigar: AOE stun, Annie: Possible AOE stun. Ryze: Snare, Malzahar: AOE silence.

Mages in general have a lot more ways to shut down the opponents team than physical DPS.


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Ep1cLeprechaun

Senior Member

02-12-2011

Most casters are stun bots unless fed.


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GeraldTremblay

Senior Member

02-12-2011

I should have stop reading at "Casters and Physical DPS serve the same purpose. To deal Damage."

Caster, most of them, are nukers and deal a lot of damage over 2 sec while physical dps deal sustained damage over time.

Outside of this there is many mistakes. Sorcerer shoes are a easy way to get MP and are boots that you have to buy anyways (no ArP boots what so ever)

Ratio lower damage output, but AP/gold is cheaper than AD/gold

etc etc


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Arecanderu

Senior Member

02-12-2011

actually, I think the comparation is even simplier than that

spells scale with AP, very few spells have a 1:1 ratio and usually are hard to land

Autoattacks scale with AD, it have a 1:1 ratio, a 1:2 ratio whit critical and 1:2,5 ratio with IE, PER ATTACK, and can attack more than once per second, Casters can´t(usually) send spells so quickly

yeah, a caster can do all his damage on 1 second, but if the target survive he can do nothing for some seconds >_>!

(but I agree that the damage is somehow balanced, I´ve seen casters with 800 AP pwning more than a DPS with 300 AD)


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