Ban pick strategy

Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Addison16

Senior Member

02-11-2011

I was wondering what banning strategies people have besides the top op list. There is the common top tank bans so that your team gets the better tank, but are there other paths out there. I thought about magic or dps carry bans, but there are so many that it would be hard to make a difference.

I have tried a jungling ban strat and it's worked well. Top junglers are ww, udry, nunu. Lower tier junglers are amumu, fiddle, malphite, shen, olaf, akali, shaco, rammus, sion, xin, and trundle. Lower tier junglers are usually near low health while jungling while top junglers stay near full health and can thus lvl faster and gank more often. It's also easier to plan anti-jungling strats against the other team (like tele to a ward at lizard for a free first blood). Now, my thought process is that if they ban someone like rammus, then I can ban two of the other top junglers and keep the other for myself so they get stuck with a lower tier jungler against me. In the games I've done this my team has done well in the early game.

Anyone else have thoughts about this or any other ban pick strategy?


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Carados

Senior Member

02-11-2011

Are you arguing that Rammus and Shaco are worse junglers then Warwick? What?

Here's the main strategy: If you're first pick, ban a champion you don't want to play against, then chose a champion that's considered Ban/Pick.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Lawrry

Member

02-11-2011

ban all the tanks or most of them


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Addison16

Senior Member

02-12-2011

Oh, and another strategy is to ban free champs. It won't help against the other team as much, but it will save you from someone on your team playing a champ they just tried out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carados View Post
Are you arguing that Rammus and Shaco are worse junglers then Warwick? What?

Here's the main strategy: If you're first pick, ban a champion you don't want to play against, then chose a champion that's considered Ban/Pick.
First, banning someone just cause you "don't want to play against" them is not really a strategy. Banning someone that counters the type of team that you would like build is more of what I'm trying to get at.

Rammus took a hit when golem and lizard had their resistances raised so he stays at a lower health now. He's a good ganker though, and that's why I stated "Now, my thought process is that if they ban someone like rammus". As for shaco, he also took a hit with the new resistances and must now rely on more of a gank based jungling stragety, and not everyone knows how to jungle as him.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Addison16

Senior Member

02-12-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawrry View Post
ban all the tanks or most of them
That path was already listed and accounted for in the line "There is the common top tank bans so that your team gets the better tank".


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Morinav

Senior Member

02-12-2011

Communicate with your team. Do not immediately start dishing out bans, but start talking to your teammates and get a feel for who they play well and who they want to be banned. You may thing it's a great idea to ban Malphite, but you might have a teammate that can ONLY play Malphite.

A tier list is a good guideline to the potential of champions, but can become worthless if it does not synch up with the abilities of your teammates to play those champions. Plus, even the top tier champions can have bad matchups or good counters.

Keep this in mind. You are only dealing with 10 people in any given game in LoL. Barring the absolute best players in the game, people are going to have some champions they are considerably better playing than others, and some they can't play very well at all. It is in your best interests to find out which champions your team plays well, and which they play poorly against. You can use this to build the comp that works the best for the players you're stuck with. It may look like a strange comp since this dude's best ranged carry is Teemo, but it might ultimately be the best comp you can muster.

This doesn't mean when someone says "Ban Kassadin he so OP" you should, but it can give you an idea of who your team has problems with. Some people simply have a hard time against specific champions. I hate playing against Sivir, for instance, since I she's just going to push all game long and force us to run around the map. I also have a hard time shutting down Shaco players. It might be in your interest to ban some champions that you know will give your teammates trouble.

Also, some people are going to be dead set on playing a champion no matter what your team chooses or the enemy team chooses. Sometimes you can persuade them, but not always. When you can't, accept that this champions is now part of your comp and work around them.

How I ban depends on whether or not I have first pick.

If I do have first pick, I identify which of the extremely strong champions my team can play. I'll try to ban around this first pick. So say if I'm first pick and someone on my team wants to play Shen, I'll ban a bunch of tanks except Shen than grab him.

If I don't have first pick, I try to predict what the enemy's ban strategy is and foil it. If I see them trying to ban all of the tanks, I can spend my bans on other archetypes so my team isn't left with an incredibly weak tank.

Regardless, I don't go for very gimicky bans like "Ban all ranged except MF then pick her" or something. I tend to ban what I consider to be strong champions a team can be built around.

The champion you select for first pick should be a strong foundation champion, a champion you can build a team around. This can be a top tank, a top carry, a top mage, etc. If you can't play that kind of champion, or really have that itch to play Teemo, for the love of god don't insta-lock your champion! Ask your team if they want to swap and grab your team a strong champion. You can have your vamp-scepter-mid teemo if you really want to, but don't throw away the strategic power of your first pick.

Each subsequent pick should strike a balance between fleshing out your team comp and countering the enemy team. Be flexible in what you pick. Don't just pick Ashe because "we need ranged". Pick Ashe because, not only is she ranged, but she provides CC and utility that your team needs. Or pick Kog'Maw to counter their tremendous fatties. Or pick Urgot if you need a badass laner who's also a semi-tanky ranged. Not all champions in the archetype are created equally.

Attempt to split your damage source between magic and physical. If you stack too much of one type you'll be easily thwarted by easy tank itemization.

When picking counters, try to think of what the enemy team is capable of and thwart it. For instance.

The enemy team has a lot of resistance tanks. A source of true damage would be good against them.
The enemy team has an extremely strong solo laner that will spiral out of control unless he's shut down. Bring a very strong solo laner or don't run a jungler so you can lock them down 2v1.
The enemy team has a fast, but weak unsafe, jungler. Bring a counter-jungler.

The further down you get on the picks, the more suited to counter-picking they are. If you have a last pick player that really wants to play a solid foundation champion, have them swap with someone who picks early. Odds are, that strong foundation champ won't be available when it comes to them.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

hydrogencar

Senior Member

02-12-2011

Shaco gets banned (yes, the UP considered Shaco) cause he can completely screw you up in jungle, cause he can do Dragon whenever he wants and just decieve when he gets ganked.
You know what Warwick does when he gets ganked at Dragon? He dies.
(Not always but you get my point)

Also his ganks early are ****ing insane.

By the way in high Elo those get banned too:
Sivir gets banned for being able to farm/push all day.
Rammus/Shen also cause they are good tanks.
Zilean too, Janna too, Taric too. Basically the best supports.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Addison16

Senior Member

02-12-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by hydrogencar View Post
Shaco gets banned (yes, the UP considered Shaco) cause he can completely screw you up in jungle, cause he can do Dragon whenever he wants and just decieve when he gets ganked.
You know what Warwick does when he gets ganked at Dragon? He dies.
(Not always but you get my point)

Also his ganks early are ****ing insane.
In a recent patch dragon was changed so that he is no longer affected by cc, so I do not think shaco can do it nearly as early as he used to.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

EzraTwitch

Senior Member

02-12-2011

Yea I jungle Shaco as my main, and as long as you have your ult up you can do dragon. Also you can jungle in an enemies jungle without fear, as his escape mechanism is just too good, also even since buffs to mr and such, a good shaco jungler will never drop below 1/2 health on his entire jungle route, and usually be at 75% - 80% through out.

No this has nothing to do with the question, but yea Shaco, not a second tier jungler I actually consider him the best jungler in the game.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

HungryKarnage

Member

02-12-2011

Banning champs is hard to set up optimally. As previous posters mentioned, there is a wide range of problems when it comes to banning. I second Morinav that the best thing to do is to ask your team who they want to ban. I follow the simple rule of thumb that if at least 2 people ask for a particular champ to be banned, then I ban it. This is because at least 40% of your team has problems with that champ.

If you are second in line to ban, then you can try to get a strong champ for your team. Example: Your team hates Shen and wants you to ban him. You (or someone on your team) can Shen well, and you are 2nd ban. Then just don't ban him, and if he remains available, pick him. In this way, you can give your team an advantage that they may not have gotten otherwise. IMO, there are so many strong champions now that you can't ban them all, and your only real counter is to pick some for your team as well (if you can play it well though!).

Picking is the real issue. As top elo players say, getting the right team comp is 50% of the way to winning the game. Make sure you can play several roles well so that you can always make your team balanced. Don't stack damage types if possible, bring at least 1 (2 is much better) hard CCers, 1 tank and 1 jungler minimum. In lower elo play you can get away with funky no tank / no jungler / no dps builds, but if you want to get past 1600s, then you better get used to picking more seriously.