Welcome to the Forum Archive!

Years of conversation fill a ton of digital pages, and we've kept all of it accessible to browse or copy over. Whether you're looking for reveal articles for older champions, or the first time that Rammus rolled into an "OK" thread, or anything in between, you can find it here. When you're finished, check out the boards to join in the latest League of Legends discussions.

GO TO BOARDS


********** Melee Kassadin Build ***********

Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Clyton

Senior Member

02-10-2011

Quote:
Claricorp:
Ad kassadin doesnt add much to a team that an AP kassadin or other melee champ would and do it better.

Hybrid kassadin is actually viable, and one of the most intensive and difficult builds to play.


^qft

I usually play hybrid Kassadin, although more into the bursty AP side of the build.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

JedimasterDarren

Senior Member

02-10-2011

Quote:
Kalshazzak:
An IE would probably give better dps than the tri-force.


IE costs as much as Trinity and would really make him a glass canon early IMO. I dont' have any personal experience buying IE 1st, but have used it as a 5th or 6th item where I found it to work well. Trinity is just so nice on a melee build for Kassadin early. You get nice 12% movement speed, 150% bonus on sheen, HP, Mana, Attack Speed, AD and even a slow.

IE would have better DPS early, but I think trinity offer more overall than IE as 1st main item.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Carados

Senior Member

02-10-2011

Quote:
JedimasterDarren:
Carodos and anyone else posting,

"Please spare us all comments about AP Kassadin and only post your comments and personal experience with melee Kassadin."

If you didn;'t want us to discuss anything you didn't like, you should've posted this on a forum you had moderation of. As is, posting this is a bad guide at the core is relevent to the discussion of the guide, just as if you posted an AP Garen or a Tank Teemo guide.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Severla

Senior Member

02-11-2011

AD Kass is fine, he just takes a different playstyle. While a bit squishier than most other anti-carry melee (Irelia or Xin for example), he gets a bit more mobility. Xin and Irelia dash in and are stuck there afterwards until the fight is over or they admit defeat and try to run. Kass's blink (and proper use of cleanse/QSS) allows him to enter, fight, and then reposition OR escape if the situation goes sour.

People just refuse to admit other options in LoL sometimes. Kass was originally built on the idea of blinking up to a mage, silencing him, slowing him, and chasing him repeating the skills. If a spell goes off in his face, he takes 15% less damage from it AND gets an AS boost. People just opted to play him based on his relatively good AP ratios. Stacking AP is what also gives Kass his INSANELY accepted squishyness. Going AD has an option of adverting this, though (Trin, Atmas, Tanky HP items) while retaining the main idea of sticking like glue to whoever you're after.

Also: Like you said, AD Kass players WILL get hate. It just comes with the job.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Severla

Senior Member

02-11-2011

Quote:
Carados]A) You're encouraging people to lose the game for thier team by playing AD Kassadin.
B) You're playing a melee carry without two escape summoners. On the champion who needs them no matter what build.
C) You started a thread which is intented to be drawn attention based on the title instead of the content.[/QUOTE]

-Blind judgement at best. It's not like going AD over AP means you will immedietly stop doing damage and be killed by a single minion attack.
-Not everyone who plays melee takes two escapes, even on the melees who, once enter the fray, have NO way out other than running with a prayer (Xin, Irelia, Akali, Olaf, Pantheon, this list goes on).
-I agree the title is a bit much, but perhaps he wanted it to be noticable?

[QUOTE=Carados]A) That doesn't make it okay. Saying "
:


-He didn't really say that made it okay. It was more of a pre-planning. I'd like to know if a hybrid character was focusing one or the other so the team could make changes to the makeup. Also, playing Kass at 0 range does kind of teach you what to look out for when you suddenly have range as AP.
-Assassin, Fighter, Tank, Mage, Support are the 5 base filters. There are also more, like stealth, melee, farmer, stun, bruiser, nuke, etc. Anti-carry/mage is not a LoL term, but is a term from the players for the characters who are built less around carrying, but can/will attempt to shut down the carry (as usual, Xin, Akali, Irelia, etc). These characters can farm up enough to carry, but they are first and foremost planned to bypass the tank (with dashes and the like) and interrupt the carry, causing the enemy team to move to act to save the carry, allowing their own team to capitalize on the chaos. Kass fills this role as AD due to his blink, silence, and proper use of his slow.
-So the response to "Have you ever tried AD Kass?" is more complaints against the title of the thread? C'mon man, you're just obviously being rude on purpose now and not trying to add anything to the discussion.

[QUOTE=Carados]If you didn;'t want us to discuss anything you didn't like, you should've posted this on a forum you had moderation of. As is, posting this is a bad guide at the core is relevent to the discussion of the guide, just as if you posted an AP Garen or a Tank Teemo guide.


You aren't really discussing anything, just making snide remarks. It would be one thing to discuss AD in comparison to the notion that AP is better, but you are merely stating "AP NOW GTFO" and nothing more. AD has viability. Comparing it to AP Garen is nonsensical, and Tank Teemo is actual fine seeing as he is Support with a Blind and free Wards (ala blind the anti-carry and know where everyone is with proper 'shroom placement! Not every ranged character HAS to carry).

TL; DR - Carados, just let it go, man. AD Kass is rare enough that you'll probably never deal with it anyway.
EDIT: Sorry if I destroy anyones minds for actually being civil on the internet. Not everyone in the world is a complete ******.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

DFxVemosStriker

Senior Member

02-11-2011

I find out that
A) there is anti-carry in this game, Its called "Assassin"
B) a AD kass is like a AP yi, AP poppy, AD Ez, AD teemo, AS jax, and etc... just cause its different doesnt make it bad, ive seen AP yi's take out 3 guys while a AD yi would get nuked... just about every champ(exceptions are Pure Mages and Pure DPS aka Veigar, Trynd) can go a different route and still destroy on the field.

Reason B is why this game is so much fun.

Edit: I have never seen a trynd tank.. but i bet it would a pain in the butt to kill...
Edit 2: tank trynd with 3k-4k health 100+ AR/MR with GA and cleanse.... i just got nightmares..........


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Saitam

Recruiter

02-11-2011

We might be a rare breed, but I also play a sort of melee Kassadin.

The source of all of the fighting, raging, arguing, and dispute between the masses of AP Kassadins and the handful of AD Kassadins stems from a pretty obvious source, that most people choose to ignore rather than accept:

Kassadin is a hybrid champion. Two of his skills pertain directly to autoattacking. Two of his skills are nukes. His ultimate facilitates both playstyles (...and is totally kickass).

Personally I feel that if you shove Kassadin into a hard AP or hard AD role, while you might enjoy success when it presents itself, you're still gimping the champion slightly.

Somebody earlier in this thread mentioned that a hybrid Kassadin is one of the toughest and most intense champion experiences in the game--this is true. In another thread, somebody once described champion as a champion that relies "not on spamming, not on stacking one stat over another, not on map awareness or ganking or any one specific thing--rather, the source of strength for any truly great Kassadin player is a simple ability: Creativity."

The key to playing Kassadin the way that he was meant to be played isn't by sticking to one course and ignoring or discounting other options. Kassadin is one of the most absolutely flexible champions in the game--he should be treated as such.

There are some items that work really well on Kassadin, almost always. Manamune, Trinity Force, Hextech Gunblade, and Lich Bane come to mind. All of these weapons complement his FULL set of abilities, not just a few. From the moment that a Kassadin player can see his full team composition, and the champions that he's playing against, he should be planning out the optimal way to combine those items, along with whatever other items he wants to efficiently and surgically dominate the other team. Because that's what Kassadin does: Quickly, efficiently, and creatively kill.
A Kassadin with more AD-esque items will be able to push and farm extremely efficiently in addition to tearing apart mages. A Kassadin with more AP-slanted gear will be able to burst down loners, and surgically remove priority targets from teamfights. Creative use of his ult, slow, armor pen/mana regen, and silence give him the ability to do almost anything.
A Kassadin who unimaginatively sticks to a single statistic is gimping his ability to succeed.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

JedimasterDarren

Senior Member

02-11-2011

Quote:
Saitam:

Kassadin is a hybrid champion. Two of his skills pertain directly to autoattacking. Two of his skills are nukes. His ultimate facilitates both playstyles (...and is totally kickass).

Personally I feel that if you shove Kassadin into a hard AP or hard AD role, while you might enjoy success when it presents itself, you're still gimping the champion slightly.

Somebody earlier in this thread mentioned that a hybrid Kassadin is one of the toughest and most intense champion experiences in the game--this is true. In another thread, somebody once described champion as a champion that relies "not on spamming, not on stacking one stat over another, not on map awareness or ganking or any one specific thing--rather, the source of strength for any truly great Kassadin player is a simple ability: Creativity."
.


First, thanks Severia for defending the Jedi Code.

Saitam, I have played hybrid kassadin and have found going primarily AP or AD more effective. I will give it another try, so please give me a build order with runes and masteries that has worke well for you.

When I played hybrid, I felt the AP was not much value when I am in melee range. Only his Q and E do much with AP, and if he is hitting for 200-400 plus crits and sheen, why cast a spell for damage? I cast them for utility.

I use to really, really like manamume on him. But then I found out how to play him well without any mana or mana regen as described in my build. That freed up runes and I no longer needed to start with a tear drop.

I will try your hybrid build, so please post it. Thanks.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Saitam

Recruiter

02-11-2011

Hey Darren,

You're right about the AP not having much effect in melee range. When playing a physical Kassadin, his spells are meant more for utility than damage.

What I meant was more that players should't focus solely on *attack damage* or *Ability Power*. Bloodthirster, Infinity Edge, and Rabadon's Deathcap are all fun items in their own right, but they slant Kass too heavily in one direction without enough utility to really roll.


Here's what I do:
Meki-->Tear of the goddess.
Boots (Merc Treads or Ninja Tabi.)
Tear of the Goddess --> Manamune
Zeal --> Sheen --> Phage --> Trinity Force
Guardian Angel

And from there, usually the game is over, else it's really up to you.

Tear of the goddess right off the bat gives Kass huge piles of mana to work with throughout the game, which he really needs if you want to be a terror to your enemy. It's definitely possible to play Kass without all of the extra mana, but I feel that if you really want to screw with your opponents in the head, harassing and porting around them before you zone in for the kill, it's really not possible unless you have the mana to run it. And Kass's abilities are plenty powerful enough early on to line up kills with only a Tear. Once the tear is in your pocket, boots are obligatory. Kass has the speed of a ranged carry even though he's a melee champ, which seems a bit weird, but oh well. More move speed is always good.

After that, I finish the Manamune, but lately I've been pondering if that slows down his early game. It might be better buying a Zeal or Sheen right off the bat, and THEN getting the Manamune, if you wanted to pack some more early-game power. Nonetheless, once Manamune is done you'll be ganking like a boss and pushing towers like Yi. The item directly benefits every single one of Kassadin's abilities.

After the Manamune, I personally like to build Zeal. It doesn't make you any tougher, but it does gives you more valuable movement speed early on, while letting you really tear through minions and jungle creeps. At this point, whenever you're not actively ganking or moving to a gank, you should be riftwalking to the nearest lane and farming like a boss, always keeping an eye out for the next kill.

After Zeal, Sheen. Once you have Sheen, you're officially a terror. It's at this point in the game where I three-shot Lux with my autoattacks and send Jax and Xin running in terror when they realize that they can't engage me except on my own terms.
From this point, just complete the trinity force, and exert your authority. After trinity I like to build Guardian Angel. People will probably be targeting you pretty hard when they get the chance, and Guardian Angel makes you effectively invincible. Even if someone does spike you down, you'll be able to resurrect in a few seconds and snarkily riftwalk over the nearest wall to safety before they blink twice.

After Guardian Angel, it's really up to you. You can build up a Hextech Gunblade to utterly dominate the field, or you can build more armor pen, movement speed, and damage, like a Black Cleaver, Phantom Dancer, or Inf. Edge. You could even build tank items to really make your opponents throw their arms up and give up on trying to figure you out. The game should be over by now.


For masteries, I go 9/21. The defensive masteries that grant health, health regen, and AP/attack speed really help early on AND throughout the game, and the 4% damage reduction is just plain funny. When it's combined with Kassadin's 15% reduction to all ability damage, enemies only do 80% magic damage tops to you, always. I get lots of OMG's from Mordekaisers when their ultimates fizzle on me. The 9 points in Offense give you AP, CDR, and magic pen, which again help you early on and throughout the game.

My runes are a little weird, but that's probably because I've stuck with a single runepage throughout my time in the game. I use two move speed quints, Health/level seals, CDR/level glyphs, and Magic resistance marks combined with one magic resistance quint.

Together, I have: +3% move speed, 175 health at level 18, 8.10% CDR at level 18, and +19 magic resist at level 18.
These attributes make me more mobile and more resistant early on, while making me tougher and more spammy/active/lane-staying later in the game. They're more tankish, but they work for melee Kassadin, in the end.

What do you think?


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

JedimasterDarren

Senior Member

02-11-2011

I will test it out.

I have gone manamume, trinity many times and its solid, but never to guardian angel. That will be a new twist for me. I am a big fan of banshee's veil, so guardian angel never hits my radar.

With manamune, what I like most for melee kassadin is the HUGE mana pool as you mention. You are at 2000 mana quick, and will cap about 2500 with just manamume and trinity. With melee Kass, you can stack rift walks then engage.....and AP don't mean squat for the damage at .40. Stacking 5 riftwalks is 1+2+3+4+5=1500 mana only, leaving you plenty to spare. So that is 5*120 or 600 area of effect damage to initiate. with no AP bonus. You can still null sphere/force pulse for 600ish more assuming no AP, then hit them with your sword for 400-800 given your trinity bonus.

The one thing that I must say i really enjoy though is the nice crits that Kassadin gets with Trinity, which is so easy to procure. I just played melee kassadin and I crit for 790 with just trinity and wriggles for AD. That is only 53 AD bonus plus trinity's 150% base, and at level 13ish I crit for 790.

I also have not played much 9/21/0. I will try that as well,but I think melee kassadin as more offensive and with my love for critical hits with him using trinity, it is hard to pass up the offensive tree.

I wish I could give you some of my 16k IP for runes