Casseiopea, simple item build idea feedback please

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Medusa

Senior Member

02-13-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by MBirk View Post
Poor snake lady. I am up vs anivia.
poke back and forth. Tap and farm with W. I get level 2. Tap her twice with q.
She tries to run. I egg her under her tower. q+W walk away. first blood.

Pretty much how it goes the rest of the game. Carried well. Their jax could barely touch me with cata-rod.
Thats the kind of stuff i like to hear! Yes, even against my main birdy Anivia. Seems you should be able to out range most champs with Q so that helps a lot. Just really getting to know how far that is, and casting it as your running back so by the time it hits your already gone.


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Mitch Bade

Senior Member

02-13-2011

As a huge fan of Cass, this thread is awsome! I really love to hear from other people who know what its like to wreck faces with her. I know she won't have a strong presence in HIGH-ELO ranked games yet, but if we stick with her and Riot doesn't forget about her I can see her having a sort of Cult type following like us.

I'm working on tweaking the perfect build for her, and I have been slowly working on a guide for her on League Craft. I downloaded a 3rd party program that lets you record replays of LoL games, and watch them with full camera control on the whole map, and I want to incorporate some replays into that guide.

Maybe get some contributions from some of yall as well some day.

I'm going to play a few more games and try some things on my tweaked builds, and let yall know how they go.

I've seen an Urgot player exceed 2000 ELO, so if Urgot can do it Cass can too!


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Gunflame

Senior Member

02-13-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by MBirk View Post
Random cass info:

I was really trying out a jungle cass. Was taking like 7 min to get 6. just not worth it.
The problem is level 1. Just cant kill golem reasonably. But level2 with blue. Cass destroys jungle. (w+e) A lane cass with hextech and blue can kill golem at 8. Hextech and blue with smite very likely can do it at 4. There is also, shes so good in lane.

W ruins Sivir. It pops her spellshield and reapplies the poison. Cass makes a nasty counterpick to sivir. you'll completely shut her down.
I jungle Cassio A LOT... you are not doing it right though, here's a build:

- Masteries 1/17/10 (the other 2 points can be used wherever you want to greed mastery gives you a free HP potion, so I recommend it)

- Runes AP flat quints, Armor flat yellow, AP flat blue, MPen reds

- Summoner spells: Smite+Revive or Smite+Teleport (this is needed for speed, you really dont need the 2nd spell, in fact you dont even need smite to jungle if an ally helps tanking small golems)

- Skills: lvl1 Q->lvl 2 W->lvl 3E->afterwards max whichever you like I recommend R>E>W>Q but it is your call if you don't wanna do it this way.

- Builds: Depends a lot on the game but I usually do Sheen->Boots->Rylai->late game items. I have been testing Philosopher stone->Boots->Rylai->Late game items. Both of them work but I like Sheen better.

** Sheen build:
- Tome+1 HP pot, drink pot as soon as you engage small golems
- Recall/Teleport or Die/revive after wolves
- Buy 5 potions, eventually get Sheen then boots, then Rylai.

** PS Build:
- Regrowth pendant
- Recall/Teleport or Die/revive after wolves
- Philosopher stone, then boots and the rest.

Jungling route:
- Lvl1 Q -> Small golems, drink a pot ASAP on them... . Kill and lvl up
- Lvl1 W -> Wraiths: walk in the middle of the wraiths stand right next to blue wraith. use W to hit ALL 4 wraith and cast Q to do the same. Autoattack the blue wraith (should be over in 3-4 seconds tops)
- Wolves Follow the same strategy as with wraith (stand behind, cast etc...)
- Lvl1 E Blue Golem... If you have enough HP cast Q/W/E (in that order) kill small minions, die or recall.
- Buy 3-5 potions and/or a ward
- Teleport or Revive, kill golem. Go gank mid/top/bot or counter jungle. If you don't want/can't do any of that go do small golems/wraiths again..


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Medusa

Senior Member

02-13-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mitch Bade View Post
As a huge fan of Cass, this thread is awsome! I really love to hear from other people who know what its like to wreck faces with her. I know she won't have a strong presence in HIGH-ELO ranked games yet, but if we stick with her and Riot doesn't forget about her I can see her having a sort of Cult type following like us.

I'm working on tweaking the perfect build for her, and I have been slowly working on a guide for her on League Craft. I downloaded a 3rd party program that lets you record replays of LoL games, and watch them with full camera control on the whole map, and I want to incorporate some replays into that guide.

Maybe get some contributions from some of yall as well some day.

I'm going to play a few more games and try some things on my tweaked builds, and let yall know how they go.

I've seen an Urgot player exceed 2000 ELO, so if Urgot can do it Cass can too!
Good to hear!

I was thinking of, even though she doesnt need it maxing CDR on her and constantly keeping Miasma up kind of style, along with the other spells ofc. Since Miasma CD is shorter then its duration at max, not even max i think.


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Mitch Bade

Senior Member

02-13-2011

You've got more balls than me for jungling with cass. I'm afraid that if the enemy team knows you are jungling, then they know that you would be an easy target to gank while youre doing it.

So I just played a game as Cass, and these are the items I got.

-Meki + 2 HP Pots
-Sorc Boots
-Haunting Guise
-Archangel's Staff
-Will of the Ancients
-Rylai's Crystal Scepter

I was just experimenting with this build. That is the order of completion too. I wasn't getting targeted until late game, so that is why Rylais was last.

So with my runes/masteries/items I had 50 Magic Penitration + 15% Magic Penetration. I wanted to try this build out because it would almost completely negate every champions BASE Magic Resist turning my damage into almost True Damage. I was even able to kill Nunu Tank like a squishy.

I thought about adding Abyssal Scepter to this build for making it even more effective but only 1 enemy was stacking magic resist, and they didn't have much AP damage to justify the MR.

I've never been a fan of haunting guise, but I think I will add it to my Core Cass build making my current Core:

-Sorc Boots
-Tear of Goddess -> AA Staff
-Haunting Guise OR WotA
-Rylai's Scepter
-Rabadon's Deathcap
-Situational Item

In this game I ended with 330 AP, but the Magic Penetration I had made it a very effective 330 AP. I had great survivability with the decent HP combined with Spell Vamp. I think it was a nice Trial run for the build, and it works with stats Cass needs to deal constant damage and survive team fights.

I probably should have got a Deathcap in that game, but Poppy was focusing me with her Ultimate every time and I needed to survive.

Oh, and yeah Cooldown Reduction is nice on her, but I don't find it necessary since her Q poison lasts 3 seconds and with masteries alone you can have the cooldown a bit below 3 seconds. Also, Twin Fang will always be 0.5 seconds CD. Although having her Ult more often rocks, and having two Miasmas out at the same time feels good.


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Medusa

Senior Member

02-13-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mitch Bade View Post
I've never been a fan of haunting guise, but I think I will add it to my Core Cass build making my current Core:
I do hope they make a 3rd Teir item from Haunting Guise. As of now its usually my 5th item just cause it doesn't build into anything.

You might want to try Tear before Sorc Shoes (i like to go back at 950g for Tear+Boots), just to get the mana going sooner. Since runes and Archaic Knowledge should be enough Mpen until you get Sorc.


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Gunflame

Senior Member

02-14-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mitch Bade View Post
You've got more balls than me for jungling with cass. I'm afraid that if the enemy team knows you are jungling, then they know that you would be an easy target to gank while youre doing it.
Well, isn't that the case with all junglers? The biggest issue with jungle cassio is that you get golem really late, therefore a coordinated team will try to steal your golem before you get there, you need team coordination so they protect your golem before they steal it from you. Other than that she is just like most non-tripple A junglers. Amumu and Eve for example. These two are not amazing junglers but they do ok, they jungling is risky because they get low on HP, but still they work well enough and they can gank.


On another matter, Haunting guise is also a really good item for cassio. Why?

- Allows you to buy MERCURY THREADS. We know CC is the worst weakness with cassio. Having some extra magic resist and CC reduction helps vs CC heavy games.
- Gives you +180 HP, going from 1800->1980 is a 10% buff in HP. It simply gives you a good amount of HP
- Damage wise it is equivalent to a Needlessly Large Rod.
- It helps vs Squishies.

I'm definetly not a fan of tear. It is not a bad item but I think that with chalice is enough (Sometimes sheen is enough) and you get the magic resist... and lets face it, you need magic resist because you will get focused. If you get chalice and Mercury thread with Rylai and Haunting guise you got enough Survivability and damage to do your job. If you get sheen instead of tear you are improving your damage early game. No need to go Tear->AAS but it is a personal preference to do so.

What I like about Cassio is how all these "mid tier - crappy" items work really well.
- Sheen
- Hextech revolver/WotA
- Haunting Guise

Cheap items that most people won't use but they are pretty decent with Cassio.


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Asylumseeker

Senior Member

02-14-2011

So i tried a game this morning with going for RoA instead of tear first off. Although i liked the extra HP late game i found her really lacking early game. Mostly on being able to spam abilities. To start with you either go HP or Mana gem if going for RoA? I tried this and you just cant spam her skills and thats important for her as she is amazing at zoning people out. Also RoA you need to get the whole thing built before you get nice mana. Tear is quite cheap to get to. Then you can either go for AP or Health depending on whats needed.

Its fine for most people as they use abilities more sparringly because they are not skill shots so are only used when they will hit. With cass you really need to keep spamming and keep them on the run and not having to go back constantly to recover mana is a huge bonus early game. So far i havent met a solo that cass cant own with her Q/W in early laning. Really only once they hit level 6 where some have an advantage (Kassadin mostly)


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MBirk

Senior Member

02-14-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunflame View Post
Well, isn't that the case with all junglers? The biggest issue with jungle cassio is that you get golem really late, therefore a coordinated team will try to steal your golem before you get there, you need team coordination so they protect your golem before they steal it from you. Other than that she is just like most non-tripple A junglers. Amumu and Eve for example. These two are not amazing junglers but they do ok, they jungling is risky because they get low on HP, but still they work well enough and they can gank.


On another matter, Haunting guise is also a really good item for cassio. Why?

- Allows you to buy MERCURY THREADS. We know CC is the worst weakness with cassio. Having some extra magic resist and CC reduction helps vs CC heavy games.
- Gives you +180 HP, going from 1800->1980 is a 10% buff in HP. It simply gives you a good amount of HP
- Damage wise it is equivalent to a Needlessly Large Rod.
- It helps vs Squishies.

I'm definetly not a fan of tear. It is not a bad item but I think that with chalice is enough (Sometimes sheen is enough) and you get the magic resist... and lets face it, you need magic resist because you will get focused. If you get chalice and Mercury thread with Rylai and Haunting guise you got enough Survivability and damage to do your job. If you get sheen instead of tear you are improving your damage early game. No need to go Tear->AAS but it is a personal preference to do so.

What I like about Cassio is how all these "mid tier - crappy" items work really well.
- Sheen
- Hextech revolver/WotA
- Haunting Guise

Cheap items that most people won't use but they are pretty decent with Cassio.
"Damage wise it is equivalent to a Needlessly Large Rod."
If you dont have the 15% magic pen off mastery or 9 mpen from red runes. Otherwise, no its not.


Jungle cass. see though, thats the problem. you are making far too many concessions with 17 def, 11 ut, ap reds, armor yellows, etc. Doing golem so late etc. At this point, its just not worth doing jungle at all. There is no advantage.
What timeline where you getting?
In fact, you could just go lane for 1 level so you have W+E, and THEN go do jungle. Safer and faster. And lets you keep more typical caster masteries and runes.
Alternatively, have someone tank golem for you at 1.


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Gunflame

Senior Member

02-14-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by MBirk View Post
"Damage wise it is equivalent to a Needlessly Large Rod."
If you dont have the 15% magic pen off mastery or 9 mpen from red runes. Otherwise, no its not.
Have you done the math yourself? I hate saying this but you should shut up if you don't haven't done the calculations . In many situations you even get MORE damage with a Haunting guise than what you get with a NLR... on top of that it costs 150g less gold AND you get a nice 180HP. Obviously NLR changes into Zhonya/Deathcap, which are amazing, but if you are not farming a lot and you want a good mid game item that boosts both your damage and survival Haunting guise is an excellent choice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MBirk View Post
Jungle cass. see though, thats the problem. you are making far too many concessions with 17 def, 11 ut, ap reds, armor yellows, etc. Doing golem so late etc. At this point, its just not worth doing jungle at all. There is no advantage.
What timeline where you getting?
In fact, you could just go lane for 1 level so you have W+E, and THEN go do jungle. Safer and faster. And lets you keep more typical caster masteries and runes.
Alternatively, have someone tank golem for you at 1.
Again, have you tried it yourself? In most cases you are just repeating what I said above

* What's wrong with my runes/masteries? Personally they make me beefy and we all agree that cassio is very squishy yet she is FORCED to get close and personal. Defensive masteries are good for her even if she lanes. I think going 9/21/0 or 0/21/9 is good even for LANING Cassio.

* AP red? I never said Armor Pen or Ability Power... you really need to check your Eyesight or learn to read.

* Doing golem "so late". I do it by the 3 min mark and I gank by 3:30 min. When my second smite is ready. Do you know who else does this? Anyone who starts in small golems or wraiths, this includes nunu, rammus, warwick, evelynn, shaco and everyone who decides NOT to start at golem. So I'm actually really fast at jungling. is it Risky? yes, it is but not too bad olaf is worst you ask me. The most delicate part is right after wraiths when you are low HP, but noone ventures so far into your jungle (your wolves) before lvl 3.

* Laning then jungling? Nah... I hit lvl 3 before my solo hits lvl 3. Yea she is THAT fast. I keep up in levels with my Solo lane... and usually when I gank my duo lane is 1 level lower than I am. I think the main disadvantages are:
- Blue golem, either someone helps you tank it BIG time or just safeguard it for a while
- Continous jungling until lvl 6 is not great... it works but not great better to gank at lvl 4 than to keep jungling until lvl 6.
- Very very weak before you return to base the first time.

I think Revive Cassio is very strong, but I don't use it because once you die the enemy team knows where you are going to be... so I tried phasing out Revive for teleport. It works well enough.

Like I said Cassio is NOT a triple A jungler... it could be used if your team doesn't have a better choice. She is way better than Shen and Akali at jungling. WAAAY better. Have you seen cocky udyr's trying to kill me? just Q+W+Ex5 and they run away (or die) to never come back. She can counter jungle like boss because her damage is crazy.

- For example your team is something like:
*Pantheon
*Ashe
*Janna
*Shen
*Jungle Cassio works well with this team because she does high Magic damage and she can jungle. The other choice for Magic damage is Fiddle but I don't like him. The team is decent rounded with 1 support, 1 tank, 1 burst Physical and 1 DPS, both Pantheon and Ashe can solo a lane. Cassio jungle>Shen jungle. So go Jungle with Cassio and ROFLSTOMP people.

I think the thing I miss the most when jungling is ghost... god I love that spell but you gotta do what you gotta do.