AP/DPS Shen...holy sh-

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kwjnfkjsdg

Senior Member

02-03-2011

LB gives me a good chunk of MR, and shen has naturally high defense stats. plus, i get a giant's belt early on for this specific purpose (which i later turn into a rylai).

and @larson, LB is just a nice package of all the stats i really need, and gives me just enough damage early game. granted, i don't go on killing sprees until i get rabadon's, but it's a good base for shen. and i never said shen was better off going AP, it's just interesting to see ppl's reactions when they see a shen go godlike and end with a score like 14-5, and it's actually pretty good as well. i'd never use this build in ranked, but it's surprisingly viable.


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Ragebeard Manric

Senior Member

02-03-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyGoNuts View Post
interesting but how do you get farmed for that? he's not exactly the best farmer early game, and that build doesn't look like it gets going till after you have a ton of cash.
What are you talking about?

Shen is an AMAZING farmer early game. He can last hit like crazy with Ki+Vorpal.

No he has no crazy AoE's and **** for late game minion clog farm but in the laning phase I almost always end up with the highest or near highest creep kills with Shen.


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Kytora

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Member

02-03-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by kwjnfkjsdg View Post
LB gives me a good chunk of MR, and shen has naturally high defense stats. plus, i get a giant's belt early on for this specific purpose (which i later turn into a rylai).

and @larson, LB is just a nice package of all the stats i really need, and gives me just enough damage early game. granted, i don't go on killing sprees until i get rabadon's, but it's a good base for shen. and i never said shen was better off going AP, it's just interesting to see ppl's reactions when they see a shen go godlike and end with a score like 14-5, and it's actually pretty good as well. i'd never use this build in ranked, but it's surprisingly viable.
Actually, to be honest I've been godlike and legendary with shen many times... as a tank. Some kills are KSed but.. with his dash taunt and ki strike its easy to get the last hits coupled with vorpal blade. Also, with a sunfire cape and thornmail dps characters kill themselves...

For viability for sure, if you can achieve such stats commonly then of course imo. Again though, stack some defence because even though a tank has higher stats... a dps that focuses you solely in a teamfight can probably take you out easily.


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FaerellG

Senior Member

02-03-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Otzd View Post
What are you talking about?

Shen is an AMAZING farmer early game. He can last hit like crazy with Ki+Vorpal.

No he has no crazy AoE's and **** for late game minion clog farm but in the laning phase I almost always end up with the highest or near highest creep kills with Shen.
Farming =/= Last Hitting


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Burbinator

Senior Member

02-03-2011

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Originally Posted by FaerellG View Post
Farming =/= Last Hitting
No need to be so pedantic, you know what they mean. And last hitting is what is important in laning phase, not aoe skills.


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FaerellG

Senior Member

02-03-2011

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Originally Posted by Burbinator View Post
No need to be so pedantic, you know what they mean. And last hitting is what is important in laning phase, not aoe skills.
Actually, I'm not being pedantic for the hell of it. They're talking about farming up big-ticket items. You don't get those just by Last Hitting during the early game phase. You need actually farm a decent amount...like really farm to pick up all of those things. Shen just doesn't have the capability to pick all of that up unless he's kill stealing like crazy...and then that's not farming anymore.

I don't disagree that LH during the early game is important, but that's not relevant to their argument...Farming is what's relevant to their argument and for some reason their point of view rests on the misguided notion that being good at Last Hitting makes Shen a good farmer...which he is atrocious at.


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Burbinator

Senior Member

02-03-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by FaerellG View Post
Actually, I'm not being pedantic for the hell of it. They're talking about farming up big-ticket items. You don't get those just by Last Hitting during the early game phase. You need actually farm a decent amount...like really farm to pick up all of those things. Shen just doesn't have the capability to pick all of that up unless he's kill stealing like crazy...and then that's not farming anymore.
Well, the point of the build is that it isn't "kill stealing" but that he's making shen into a dps champ (so i guess he's earning those kills). Good last hitting can easily give you a +30-50 cs edge before laning phase is over, which might be enough to let you snowball.


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FaerellG

Senior Member

02-03-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Burbinator View Post
Well, the point of the build is that it isn't "kill stealing" but that he's making shen into a dps champ (so i guess he's earning those kills). Good last hitting can easily give you a +30-50 cs edge before laning phase is over, which might be enough to let you snowball.
still doesn't make him a good enough farmer to pick up so many big items. 30-50 CS is really great and might get him to one of those big items, but he's going to fall behind very fast as superior "Farmers" catch up in CS starting at level 4-5 and easily out pace him by level 7.

If they want to argue that he's getting kills to fuel his gold intensive build, then sure, I can buy that. But their argument is that he's a great "farmer" which is just flat out wrong.


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kwjnfkjsdg

Senior Member

02-03-2011

k well maybe i'm not 100% familiar with the exact specifics of the terminology, i apologize for not owning a LoL textbook.

to me, farming is merely how well you make money off of killing creeps, which shen is technically good at. i don't have to be level 18 to be able to kill a creep with my Q>lichbane combo, and repeat it half a second later with my Q's low cooldown. say whatever, but i always have a lead on creep kills than the opposing mid, unless their mid is extremely aggressive at lvls 1-3 and zones me out.


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PineapplePine

Senior Member

02-03-2011

I think you shouldn't rush Lich Bane but get Sheen + Giant's Belt for the extra survibility. Then you can get whatever you want. Boots included of course. I usually grab Boots then Giant's Belt and it works pretty good in terms of tanking. Then I go forward to specific items. Of coures I can substitude Giant's Belt with Aegis but I'm not here to debate whether what item you should get for a tank Shen. I'm just debating that perhaps Lich Bane can hold off for 1000 gold or so.

Edit: Last hit vs Farm well

Last hit simply means you can kill minion really easily and won't miss (as in you hit but leaves them with say 5 hp and minion takes it). Farm means you can clear waves while last hitting really well. Shen is great at last hitting with Ki Strike and Vorpal Blade. But he is not a good farmer. He can at best last hit three minions every 8 seconds perfectly (2 Vorpal Blades and 1 Ki Strike). Another thing to remember is that his 1 Ki Strike well put him in range for harrassment. People who farm well are split into two categories people that can deal AoE damage (Nasus, Morgana, Zilean) and people who are just ranged with nice AS and such (MF, Ashe, Teemo, Tristana).

Do note that I am discussing if the champion itself is made to last hit well or not and not the player him/her self. A good player can last hit with any champion.


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