On Eve's difficulties

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WinterAyars

Senior Member

08-15-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lollerman View Post
To be fair, even if they could see you, they'd need something to stop you with first before Eve is considered "countered".
Like a slow or a stun. In alphabetical order:

Alistar, Amumu, Aniva, Annie (situationally), Ashe, ChoGath, Evelynn(!), Fiddlesticks, Jax (situationally), Judicator, Karthus, Kassidan, Morgana, Nunu, Rammus, Ryze, Singed, Sion, Teemo (situationally), Trynd (situationally), Twisted Fate, Twitch, Veigar, Warwick, Zilean.

25/29 heroes, approximately. You can't actually build a five-person team without something, even if it's awkward.

Quote:
Just being able to see her isn't nearly enough; you need to run away from her too, and if you have to run away, then that in itself already makes Eve sufficient.
Except you don't really need to run away. During pushes and team fights everybody is bunched up. If she tries to run in she will get vaporized instantly. Sure, she can help clean up after the fight... but if your team can win 4v5 team fights they probably don't need someone just to help them clean up, now do they?

Quote:
I know that example is a tad situational, but Eve's damage output is still nothing to laugh about. Just like how organised teams can completely disable and FF Eve to drop her like a fly, your team mates could be used to divert their focus to them rather than you.
Except that's not really going to work because A. Eve has no hit point so she folds like paper, B. she does a lot of damage so she's a high priority target, and C. if she can't get in she can't do any damage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by emrot View Post
  • Let her Ult upgrade her stealth, so that even CV/Oracle elixirs can't see her if she's got both running. (Helps her stealth, obviously. Still, would let her do something against teams with lots of detection)
I like this suggestion, though it does buff her stealth. It doesn't really make her better against noobs, though, and that's a plus. It also lets her at least kamikaze on a target, which is something.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kosta View Post
Evelyn is much like the spy of TF2, a stomper if not given atention, useless if their team knows you are there. She's a noob stomper and I don't really see why every chapion should be good at everything.
First of all, the Spy does show up in competitive tf2 as an off-class... but then, competitive tf2 balance is a bit... off...

Secondly, why have a champion that can't compete? If you're good you don't need a character that's only good against noobs, and if you're bad you're not going to get an advantage out of it anyway (because you're bad)... but you will learn the "wrong" things, thus holding you at a level of only being able to fight noobs.

Why have a character that may as well be a blank when the enemies aren't hapless enough to stumble into her repeatedly? Wouldn't it be better to take that character and idea and make it work even if the enemies aren't feeble as kittens? What's wrong with making champions who can compete?


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Koslomac

Senior Member

08-15-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by WinterAyars View Post
First of all, the Spy does show up in competitive tf2 as an off-class... but then, competitive tf2 balance is a bit... off...

Secondly, why have a champion that can't compete? If you're good you don't need a character that's only good against noobs, and if you're bad you're not going to get an advantage out of it anyway (because you're bad)... but you will learn the "wrong" things, thus holding you at a level of only being able to fight noobs.

Why have a character that may as well be a blank when the enemies aren't hapless enough to stumble into her repeatedly? Wouldn't it be better to take that character and idea and make it work even if the enemies aren't feeble as kittens? What's wrong with making champions who can compete?
Eve is a single target killer, she excells at that and you want her to be good in team battles also? Why not give every tank the damage of a DPS champion, give tank health/armor to supporters if we are at it. Every champion/champion role has it's weaknesses and strengths, if we negated them what game would we play?
I'm not against evelyn being a competitive champion, but negating her only weakness seems a bad idea.


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Reaper

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Senior Member

08-15-2009

unable to deliver in team fights makes eve undesirable.


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Lendari

Adjudicator

08-15-2009

People get the idea that Eve can't be part of a team... but that's incorrect. Eve is a perfect "clean up" after a team fight. She just pinballs between people at low life healing herself and racking up kills. Plus she's great for getting behind and assassinating the other teams Ashe or Tristana in a heated team fight which is a BIG deal.

I'm not saying I like Eve, but if you can't solo gank with her it's not the end of the world.


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Yuralz

Senior Member

08-15-2009

Premade team + improved clairvoyance = gg Eve.


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WinterAyars

Senior Member

08-16-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lendari View Post
People get the idea that Eve can't be part of a team... but that's incorrect. Eve is a perfect "clean up" after a team fight. She just pinballs between people at low life healing herself and racking up kills. Plus she's great for getting behind and assassinating the other teams Ashe or Tristana in a heated team fight which is a BIG deal.

I'm not saying I like Eve, but if you can't solo gank with her it's not the end of the world.
Unless the Ashe or Tristana buy invisibility detection, in which case you may as well just step away from your keyboard and wait to die.


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Lendari

Adjudicator

08-16-2009

A properly build EvE can kill anyone 1:1. In a teamfight she can take down the ranged carry before the rest of the team can focus fire. Eve has to wait for the right time to attack.


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Sagas

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Adjudicator

08-17-2009

One thing that would help would be (ala WoW) an obvious indication of who can see you while your stealthed. Yes you can click through the enemy heroes to see what buffs they have on currently, but that's difficult when you're trying to close on them plus avoid obvious clairvoyence drop locations.


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Bianary

Senior Member

08-17-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lendari View Post
A properly build EvE can kill anyone 1:1. In a teamfight she can take down the ranged carry before the rest of the team can focus fire. Eve has to wait for the right time to attack.
Where does she get the HP to survive against some of the higher DPS champions that have stuns? Doubly if they buy a potion and just wait for her to come.

Also, saying she can down the ranged carry before her teammates indicates the ranged carry is playind stupid, there's no reason they'll be coming out front when an Eve is on the enemy team. They'll hang back and crush Eve when she tries to do anything to help her allies (Or her allies, one at a time. That's kinda what ranged carries do.).


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Logo

Senior Member

08-17-2009

The problem with eve is how to balance her for team play and solo play. Especially given her ult she can chain kill unorganized players quite easily.

What if her ult worked the same way but instead of a combat boost gave her some form of escape, protection, or disable.

Compare her to Riki from DotA (which she's very similar too). The only reason Riki is used compared to so many passed over invis heroes is because he provides a strong AoE disable and blink in.

Even if you don't drastically change the ult maybe it could provide an evasion boost (at the expensive of some of the other damage and/or movespeed). At least this way she'd have SOMETHING to work with.


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