Ashe

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Eledhan

Senior Member

02-02-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by lmDerek View Post
Yea, but the point is not to get the 100% lifesteal but to regain enough hp where you're ahead of your opponent. It won't matter if its 50 or 100 or full hp.
Hahaha!!! It's refreshing to see someone with their head screwed on straight...good point!

I noticed your next post...you should give brutalizer a shot sometime...you might prefer that as a starting item over rushing IE. I advise either one depending on position and circumstances.


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Guerrilla333

Senior Member

02-02-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eledhan View Post
Hahaha!!! It's refreshing to see someone with their head screwed on straight...good point!

I noticed your next post...you should give brutalizer a shot sometime...you might prefer that as a starting item over rushing IE. I advise either one depending on position and circumstances.
yea i want to try it and i also want to try zeal


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Cenerae

Senior Member

02-02-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by lmDerek View Post
Yea, but the point is not to get the 100% lifesteal but to regain enough hp where you're ahead of your opponent. It won't matter if its 50 or 100 or full hp.
You're forgetting that you can no longer start with a Doran's Blade +hp pot. A Blade by itself is going to be bad for lanestaying power, because 3% lifesteal is inferior to a hp pot for staying in the lane. If you started with the Longsword as ricklessabandon suggests, you get 1 more AD, better lanestaying power (at least, in the short to medium term), and something you can turn into a Last Whisper/Hexdrinker, at the cost of 100hp and 3% lifesteal.

If we were talking pre-patch then yes, you'd probably go with the Blade and pot combo. But now? I don't think it's really worth it.


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Eledhan

Senior Member

02-02-2011

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Originally Posted by Cenerae View Post
You're forgetting that you can no longer start with a Doran's Blade +hp pot. A Blade by itself is going to be bad for lanestaying power, because 3% lifesteal is inferior to a hp pot for staying in the lane. If you started with the Longsword as ricklessabandon suggests, you get 1 more AD, better lanestaying power (at least, in the short to medium term), and something you can turn into a Last Whisper/Hexdrinker, at the cost of 100hp and 3% lifesteal.

If we were talking pre-patch then yes, you'd probably go with the Blade and pot combo. But now? I don't think it's really worth it.
I'm thinking that the Doran's blade start is definitely going to be a toss-up now that you have to choose between regen or total HP...

I agree that Doran's Blade will not necessarily be better for regenerating any lost HP prior to the first trip back to base, but it might still be quite usable.

The bottom line here is that choosing Doran's Blade or Long Sword starts is actually a difficult choice now, whereas before, smart players would simply go with Doran's Blade.


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Eledhan

Senior Member

02-02-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by ricklessabandon View Post
Hahaha!!! It's refreshing to see someone with their head screwed on straight...good point!
3% life steal requires 6666 damage in order to regen the same amount of health as a potion...

That sounds like a lot, but when you look at level 1 Ashe with a Doran's Blade, she's dealing 60 damage (non-crit) auto attacks...that means only 111 auto attacks to get all that HP back...which is actually less than that once she gains a few levels.

111 auto attacks sounds like alot, but it's really not that much...you can get that many auto attacks (assuming non-stop attacking) in just under 3 min. Assume you only auto attack for half of your play time (which I actually come pretty close to doing, since I've figured out Ashe's cadence for AA while also last hitting), and you're looking at just under 6 minutes to match the healing provided by a Health pot...that's not too shabby.

Once you get your BF Sword, it cuts that time in half again, so...basically, we're looking at 3 minutes to recover HP equal to a potion.

I'm not saying that you should build your entire concept around this lifesteal, but neither should you build your entire concept around a health potion...The two are hardly comparable since they each provide completely different benefits. One is for short-term, early regen, the other is for long-term sustainability. They really don't compare, but since some of the forum members keep doing it, I figured I'd do my own.

And, you get the nice bonus of the extra 100 HP, which is actually very nice because it can discourage opponents from harassing you when they realize that they will lose an exchange of blows due to your higher health pool.

The damage is negligible. The only other thing to consider at this point is the cost in delaying your main items, which has always been an issue with Doran's items, and I don't think the patch has changed that significantly...


All that to say...I haven't decided yet whether I still like Doran's Blade as a starting item better than Long Sword + HP potion...I need to try a game without my starting potion to see how I do before I make my final decision.


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Vimous

Senior Member

02-02-2011

Man, I consider myself a very good ashe player. However, I see that a lot ashes get brutalizer. Personally, I rarely if never touch it. I usually rush IE. Maybe I just have a bad history with brut. Hell, guess I can try it again. Just figured I already get 30 armor pen with runes and masteries, rush the dmg items early.


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Cenerae

Senior Member

02-02-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eledhan View Post
3% life steal requires 6666 damage in order to regen the same amount of health as a potion...

That sounds like a lot, but when you look at level 1 Ashe with a Doran's Blade, she's dealing 60 damage (non-crit) auto attacks...that means only 111 auto attacks to get all that HP back...which is actually less than that once she gains a few levels.

111 auto attacks sounds like alot, but it's really not that much...you can get that many auto attacks (assuming non-stop attacking) in just under 3 min. Assume you only auto attack for half of your play time (which I actually come pretty close to doing, since I've figured out Ashe's cadence for AA while also last hitting), and you're looking at just under 6 minutes to match the healing provided by a Health pot...that's not too shabby.

Once you get your BF Sword, it cuts that time in half again, so...basically, we're looking at 3 minutes to recover HP equal to a potion.

I'm not saying that you should build your entire concept around this lifesteal, but neither should you build your entire concept around a health potion...The two are hardly comparable since they each provide completely different benefits. One is for short-term, early regen, the other is for long-term sustainability. They really don't compare, but since some of the forum members keep doing it, I figured I'd do my own.

And, you get the nice bonus of the extra 100 HP, which is actually very nice because it can discourage opponents from harassing you when they realize that they will lose an exchange of blows due to your higher health pool.

The damage is negligible. The only other thing to consider at this point is the cost in delaying your main items, which has always been an issue with Doran's items, and I don't think the patch has changed that significantly...


All that to say...I haven't decided yet whether I still like Doran's Blade as a starting item better than Long Sword + HP potion...I need to try a game without my starting potion to see how I do before I make my final decision.
If you're non-stop autoattacking your lane as Ashe, you are doing it wrong. In practise it will take a lot longer to rack up those hits.

By the time you've clicked up enough autoattacks to make the lifesteal equal the pot in terms of health regenerated, you're more than likely ready to base anyway, if you didn't already do so.


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SoFFacet

Senior Member

02-02-2011

The number of autoattacks you can get in a lane is significantly dependent on how the enemy acts. If they are pushing the lane hard you will need to fire back to keep your tower from eating too many of your last hits. This will feed your DBlade's lifesteal with no drawback. However if your opponent is managing to hurt you without pushing the lane, DBlade's lifesteal is basically useless - if you spam A, you'll either get ganked or you wont gain enough hp back to prevent yourself from being zoned away or killed once your lane pushes.


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Guerrilla333

Senior Member

02-02-2011

imo the blade is still better than the long sword.

blade has 100 hp more and 3% life steal

Longsword has 1 more dmg, and gives 200 hp from pot

Basically, that 200 hp will be 100hp because the blade gives u 100.

Life stealing at 3% per hit will take about 56 hits (w/o crit) to reach 100 hp which means it will balance out with the longsword, but the HP pot is only if u take hits. If you think about it, you don't really get harassed as much when you're ashe because you can stand back and farm + volley at champion when they over extend from creeps to hit you.


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Eledhan

Senior Member

02-02-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vimous View Post
Man, I consider myself a very good ashe player. However, I see that a lot ashes get brutalizer. Personally, I rarely if never touch it. I usually rush IE. Maybe I just have a bad history with brut. Hell, guess I can try it again. Just figured I already get 30 armor pen with runes and masteries, rush the dmg items early.
Good instincts. Brut is a great item on Ashe, but it does delay her primary item, IE. I like brute when I'm side laning with a babysitter so I can focus on more damage instead of surviving.