Ashe

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Eledhan

Senior Member

02-02-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by lmDerek View Post
True, but treads are situation when the other team has a lot of CC.


Imo, Yes, they can save your life but at the same time they are not exactly at the same cost level as a swiftness. That can set you back on money to buy other important items like IE/LW. I get swiftness as a boot to kite people around my thoughts -> Fast MS + Slow atk - Infinite kite.
You can actually perform much better by getting Berserker Greaves early-mid game. it allows you to harass better, push down towers, etc. It's not until late game that you will find yourself in need of more move speed, in which case, you should probably get yourself some MS from items like Zeal and PD.

I used to be hard set on Swiftness, but have since switched over to Berserker Greaves...and LOVE IT!!! The 25% increase in average dps is simply amazing, and it allows your combat move speed to be about the same as if you were wearing Swiftness since the time taken to attack is so much shorter.


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Eledhan

Senior Member

02-02-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawrry View Post
i think its better to go with dorans shield now instead of blade, since you probably want health regen because you cant buy that health pot in the beginning.

thats just my thinking now.

so i'd probably go dorans shield, boots of speed, dorans blade, upgrade boots
Doran's Shield is not a bad choice. However, with 55 attack damage at level 1 (assuming 21 Offensive masteries), Doran's blade will grant you just over 5 Hp5 from life steal against minions. Yeah, you have to auto-attack, but it's still a pretty good choice.

And if you need to stack Doran's Blades, you get double the regen on the next blade. I prefer the damage bonus to the defense, since the only champions who really want to trade harass with you are dealing magic damage, which Doran's Shield doesn't help. It'd be better to deal more damage to them if they want to trade harassment.


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Bumbah

Senior Member

02-02-2011

This is my personal preference

I run Arp reds, AD yellows, AD blues, and Crit quints
I go 21/0/9 masteries. Imp ghost and regen in utility tree
Summoner Spells - Clarity and ghost (clarity due to no mana runes)

I DO play a AS/AD ashe and find lots of success.

Items: I always start with Dorans shield rather than Dorans Blade. IMO, i'd rather have hp/regen and armor vs lifesteal and AD. The lifesteal is somewhat negligable since a lot of the dmg done early lane is via volley, which doesn't proc lifesteal. Also, the armor is decent, and can save you against other AD champs that play mid ie MF, Cait, and occasionally Pantheon. Lastly, the AD on the blade is nice, but I have flat AD runes so I feel i have enough AD fo rearly lanes.
Next item I usually rush is Swiftness boots. IMO, boots are ALWAYS team dependent. However, due to Ashe's extremely gankabiliy early game, swiftness are too good to pass up. Sure, merc treads lower CC duration.....but that means you need to get hit to actually get the benefit. With Ashe, the point is NOT to get hit in the first place. Chances are if your stunned/snared/rooted, you're toast anyways
Third item i get is Phantom Dancer--starting with Zeal. More MS, More AS, and more Crit. I'm maximizing my runes, and my boots even more. Sometimes I'll grab Zeal, then go for my IF right away, or I'll finish up my PD, then shoot for a BF sword asap.
If I find myself getting ganked or dying or getting too low on health and recalling too much, I'll grab a BV or Hexdrinker depending on enemies.

The reason I like the AS/AD build so much is it makes kiting fun and powerful. A couple quick shots of frost arrow does alot of dmg and slows them quite nicely. Farming minions is Ashe's key to Carrying, and more AS cleans up quite nicely. Ashe a superior kiter than most champs. You want to get in, do damage, get out, and hope they chase you so you can continually volley/frost arrow behind in hopes they turn away. Once they do, you can finish them off with more frost arrows and volley.

You can be a succesful Ashe with what I just descirbed....and I didn't even touch on Enchaned Arrow. Thats a whole different disscusion. Use it smart. use it OFTEN. Inititate team fights with it, but don't waste it trying to save another lane. Your better off running/ghosting to the other lane until your close enough to garauntee your ECA hits. Another reason why I take Boots 3, PD, and ghost. Sure, ECA does mre dmg further away, but it stuns no matter what! and finish off with Volley and auto attacks that crit for 500

GL HF


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Guerrilla333

Senior Member

02-02-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eledhan View Post
Before I get started, I'd like to point you to my Ashe guide, Ashe - The Team Queen. I have a few excellent builds that help you see what you might want to build for Ashe, so check it out. In addition, I and several others check that thread often in order to answer any questions people might have about Ashe, so feel free to ask away. I check the guide daily.



I wasn't aware of any move speed reduction nerfs... At least not on Ashe. Ashe hasn't been changed since I started playing back in August. I'm curious to know what you're referring to...



BOTH!!! You need damage first, then you want to go ahead with attack speed.



Everything you have said is wonderfully accurate. But if you already have Infinity Edge, and perhaps a Bloodthirste, you want to build more damage AND attack speed. Grab yourself a Zeal while you build your defensive items, and watch your damage out-put go nuts.

Here's why...

At level 18 with an IE and Bloodthirster, Ashe has about 250 AD.

If you buy a Zeal, you're going to deal an average of 15% more damage on EACH attack after the first one. In addition, you're going to attack 20% faster. All-told, you're going to be dealing approximately 35% more damage per second due to the addition of the crit chance and attack speed.

If you buy another BF Sword, you're only going to gain an increase of 20% DPS (50/250 = 20%) at a cost that is higher than Zeal.


Now, if you don't already have IE + some other AD item, you can stack more damage before AS comes into play. Just remember that ANY crit chance actually increases average damage by 1.5 times the crit chance percentage, due to IE's passive. It's actually 1.6 times the crit chance percentage if you have the crit damage mastery, but that's another story for another day.

This is a great way to increase damage per attack for less gold than you can with pure AD items. The attack speed on Zeal just makes it an even better buy. The move speed bonus is just icing on the cake! Oh, and did I mention that it builds into PD?
carries like trist/mf lost like 5-10 Movespeed from their base about few weeks ago.

I find zeal to be lackluster and AS not to be a priority because I never sit in 1 spot for more than 1 attack (2 attack at max) because every1 goes for me. And as for def item, bansh/ quicksilver works the best for me.


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Eledhan

Senior Member

02-02-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by lmDerek View Post
carries like trist/mf lost like 5-10 Movespeed from their base about few weeks ago.
I see...I didn't know about those changes since I don't follow champions that I don't play that closely. Thanks for the info!

Quote:
I find zeal to be lackluster and AS not to be a priority because I never sit in 1 spot for more than 1 attack (2 attack at max) because every1 goes for me. And as for def item, bansh/ quicksilver works the best for me.
The reason Zeal is so good is that it gives champs with IE a great damage boost due to the critical chance increase. And it gives you that ability to move more...

If you're going to build an attack speed item, may I ask which one you would prefer over Zeal?


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SoFFacet

Senior Member

02-02-2011

I haven't played in the new patch yet but the old staple build was DBladex3, Greaves, IE, and then PD/LW/Veil in whatever order makes sense. I never ran out of mana before, so I'm going to try it out again and if I still don't run out of mana, the mana changes in patch will have made a lot of noise but zero difference (to Ashe).

Greaves are the best boots because you can achieve acceptable movespeed with Boots 2 + some combination of Swiftness (utility mastery), Movespeed quints, and/or Zeal/PD. Also, Treads look nice but the 35% will rarely make enough difference to get you out alive. While it is true that Ashe does not often stay still and fire, the thing is that at some point during every game, usually during the most important team fights, Ashe is going to need to stand and deliver. If you don't have AS you just won't have enough DPS to matter in those critical moments.


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hardFAILus

Member

02-02-2011

Quote:
I used to be hard set on Swiftness, but have since switched over to Berserker Greaves...and LOVE IT!!! The 25% increase in average dps is simply amazing, and it allows your combat move speed to be about the same as if you were wearing Swiftness since the time taken to attack is so much shorter.
Finally someone who speaks my language. I played Ashe in fare more than 100 games now and I still can't see why any player at all ever needs boots of swiftness or mercury threads. Just to throw in some arguments:

- Ashe can perma slow anyone and slow everyone in a cone in front of her with her volley. So what exactely is the reason for boots of swiftness? They are also real expensive
- Ashe has as much HP as Ryze (by far lowest in game!). The reduced stun time by merc threads might help you in early game but in mid/end-game you just die anyways. Magic resist itself can be built much cheaper
- If you buy berserker boots you can slow better (and also more than one person at the same time by switching targets for every shot) and you cheaply gain up to 25% more dmg (+ more crits) + but whats really important: You spend less money getting your brutalizer and IE quicker.


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Eledhan

Senior Member

02-02-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by hardFAILus View Post
Finally someone who speaks my language. I played Ashe in fare more than 100 games now and I still can't see why any player at all ever needs boots of swiftness or mercury threads. Just to throw in some arguments:
If you like this, you should check out my guide, Ashe - The Team Queen if you haven't already. It's got great info for fans of Ashe to check out. Good to meet others who enjoy playing as Ashe!

Quote:
- Ashe can perma slow anyone and slow everyone in a cone in front of her with her volley. So what exactely is the reason for boots of swiftness? They are also real expensive
- Ashe has as much HP as Ryze (by far lowest in game!). The reduced stun time by merc threads might help you in early game but in mid/end-game you just die anyways. Magic resist itself can be built much cheaper
- If you buy berserker boots you can slow better (and also more than one person at the same time by switching targets for every shot) and you cheaply gain up to 25% more dmg (+ more crits) + but whats really important: You spend less money getting your brutalizer and IE quicker.
I would also add that you have not really traded COMBAT move speed...since you attack 25% faster, your attack animation is 25% quicker, thus reducing the time you must stand still by 25%...this effectively increases your overall move speed when in combat.


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Guerrilla333

Senior Member

02-02-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by ricklessabandon View Post
you have to deal over 3333 damage from auto-attacks (that will result in you gaining 100% of the life stolen, i.e. you're not at full health) with a doran's blade to have the same amount of health as a long sword + health potion. long sword is the better starting item.
Yea, but the point is not to get the 100% lifesteal but to regain enough hp where you're ahead of your opponent. It won't matter if its 50 or 100 or full hp.


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Guerrilla333

Senior Member

02-02-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by hardFAILus View Post
Finally someone who speaks my language. I played Ashe in fare more than 100 games now and I still can't see why any player at all ever needs boots of swiftness or mercury threads. Just to throw in some arguments:

- Ashe can perma slow anyone and slow everyone in a cone in front of her with her volley. So what exactely is the reason for boots of swiftness? They are also real expensive
- Ashe has as much HP as Ryze (by far lowest in game!). The reduced stun time by merc threads might help you in early game but in mid/end-game you just die anyways. Magic resist itself can be built much cheaper
- If you buy berserker boots you can slow better (and also more than one person at the same time by switching targets for every shot) and you cheaply gain up to 25% more dmg (+ more crits) + but whats really important: You spend less money getting your brutalizer and IE quicker.
yea, i was meaning to try the berserker, but i never tried going for brutalizer.