How do you build Sivir properly?

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Dakkas

Senior Member

01-31-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carados View Post
You really really shouldn't need any mana items on Sivir. Or Teleport. You're playing Sivir like it's 2009, not 2011. You want Flash/Cleanse/Ghost. You're a carry. Act like one.
However there isn't another carry that can farm or push as well as you, if you don't take advantage of it then you're not using Sivir to her strengths.

Also I sincerely don't believe you could play Sivir and spam BB and keep ricochet all game with no mana items except late game


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Carados

Senior Member

01-31-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dakkas View Post
However there isn't another carry that can farm or push as well as you, if you don't take advantage of it then you're not using Sivir to her strengths.

Also I sincerely don't believe you could play Sivir and spam BB and keep ricochet all game with no mana items except late game
So don't ****ing spam those spells? Watch a good Sivir play on a high level stream. You'll see what they do.


And more to the point, what's the purpose of teleport, so you can get ganked and die when you teleport to creeps far away from your team?


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Dakkas

Senior Member

01-31-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carados View Post
So don't ****ing spam those spells? Watch a good Sivir play on a high level stream. You'll see what they do.
Then you're not farming as efficiently? Are you only going to be using them when you're having team fights? Chalice is cheap

Quote:
And more to the point, what's the purpose of teleport, so you can get ganked and die when you teleport to creeps far away from your team?
Talk about biased scenarios. Because that always happens to everyone that teleports


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Carados

Senior Member

01-31-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dakkas View Post
Then you're not farming as efficiently? Are you only going to be using them when you're having team fights? Chalice is cheap
If you're having mana problems between your runes and intelligent use of your spells,

It's not like your glaive and your W give more gold per creep, you're still farming just as efficiently as before.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dakkas View Post
Talk about biased scenarios. Because that always happens to everyone that teleports
If you port to a side lane solo without the enemy team punishing you for it, it doesn't matter what you do because you're going to win the game against bad players.


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Dakkas

Senior Member

01-31-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carados View Post
If you're having mana problems between your runes and intelligent use of your spells,

It's not like your glaive and your W give more gold per creep, you're still farming just as efficiently as before.
If you have a spell that can clear a creepwave with one cast and has a short cooldown, why wouldn't you want to use it?

Quote:
If you port to a side lane solo without the enemy team punishing you for it, it doesn't matter what you do because you're going to win the game against bad players.
As I said, biased scenario. I can counter that argument by saying I wouldn't push a solo lane if the other team is MIA. Additionally I could say I use teleport to help back up other lanes in trouble or to back up team-mates that are pushing


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Subdue

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Senior Member

01-31-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carados View Post
If you're having mana problems between your runes and intelligent use of your spells,

It's not like your glaive and your W give more gold per creep, you're still farming just as efficiently as before.

If you port to a side lane solo without the enemy team punishing you for it, it doesn't matter what you do because you're going to win the game against bad players.
It really depends on how you measure efficiency. If you are measuring it by gold amount earned, then sure, auto attacking and last hitting each minion is just as efficient as throwing a Boomerang Blade and following it up with Ricochet. However, if you measure efficiency by Gold/Second, then no, it's not as efficient as taking 2 seconds to clear the wave and moving on.

And that's directly related to the next point you made. Let's say you're Sivir, on the bottom team. There's a team fight happening at dragon, and it's a stand off. You teleport to the top lane, where the minions are even (the waves meet exactly at the midpoint of the lane). Assuming that everyone functions under your logic that teleport is a useless spell because teleporting to a side lane results in death, it will take the enemy team 30 seconds to travel from Dragon to the top turret to "punish" you for teleporting solo. It will take you 2 seconds to clear the minions, and another 15 (if that) to kill the tower.

Of course, then you'd argue, "Well, they wouldn't go after you, they'd take the Dragon."

But let's follow that train of thought. Assuming they decide to stay and take the dragon, and your team can harass them but not stop them from doing it, that still buys you another 30-40 seconds, or more. That's 30-40 seconds where you can, you guessed it, stay at top and take ANOTHER turret! Yes, you've now taken two turrets for the price of a Dragon.

Now obviously, this is just a single situation, but really the concept remains the same. Other carries don't usually grab teleport because they can't use it to the same efficiency that Sivir can.


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Pregnaloons

Senior Member

01-31-2011

I play sivir more as a support/team leader.

If you're better suited to mid than anyone else on your team, take it, otherwise stick to a side lane and give mid to someone who needs it more. Without trying you will find yourself overextending and getting ganked.

I get clairvoyance and teleport, Clair is amazing for a support character, and if you're teleporting to a tower to take it out, clairing the river after a few seconds will save your life. And pretty much just make life all round much less stressful. Wanna know if they're baronning, or where they are just behind the tower bping back? Can you get a BB off to kill them while they aren't paying attention? Take Clair and use it whenever it's up, you'll be surprised how often it is, it has a very short cd compared to most other summoner spells.

Clair is also a great directional spell. You can lead your team with it very easily, clair dragon, and your team will see it is still there/being taken. What will they do? Want to go get it. You can lead your team passively this way if they want to do their own thing usually. Get to know the game and how to lead your team with clair, it can be the difference if you're a good strategist, and your team is a typical solo Q composition.

I used to get chalice, now I get manamune. Core items are boots of whatever is necessary, starks, and aegis for support. By the end I usually also have warmogs and atmas and a bloodthirster. Damage and attack speed are awesome, even with all that aura deliciousness that will let you be useful even when you're not auto attacking at the front lines.

Like has been said, Warmogs and Atmas is a pretty good combo, and sivir can farm up warmogs a lot faster than most. Giving you ridiculous health and regen mid game. If you're still not doing so well, grab a banshees instead of something, maybe the bloodthirster since you keep dying and can't farm it up anyway. Hang in there and give your team the boost to win.


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Carados

Senior Member

01-31-2011

Let's be honest here, the reason Sivir is banned permamently in high Elo has nothing to do with her pushing ability or her "support," it has to do with the fast she's the best scaling carry in the game.


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Dakkas

Senior Member

01-31-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carados View Post
Let's be honest here, the reason Sivir is banned permamently in high Elo has nothing to do with her pushing ability or her "support," it has to do with the fast she's the best scaling carry in the game.
A bit of a strawman argument here, getting a a chalice and/or teleport does very little to detract from her carry abilities, especially when the cheap cost of the chalice is further mitigated because she can easily farm its cost very quickly.


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Carados

Senior Member

01-31-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dakkas View Post
A bit of a strawman argument here, getting a a chalice and/or teleport does very little to detract from her carry abilities, especially when the cheap cost of the chalice is further mitigated because she can easily farm its cost very quickly.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opportunity_cost

Why get a summoner spell you don't need instead of one that helps you do your job? Why not learn to play better and manage mana + have the correct runes instead of wasting your first farming item be an item you don't actually need?

More to the point, when you see a Sivir in high level games, why don't they have teleport when they win the game? Why no Chalice?


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