I soloed against Udyr and he ignored me

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Necrax

Senior Member

01-18-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by AmyOverlord View Post
The problem with Udyr is that his Turtle Stance Damage Bubble is just too ****ing high.

He shouldn't even have a damage bubble. But in short, you won't beat a Udyr in a solo lane because of his damage bubble. If a Udyr intends to solo, you've got one of two choices.

1. Get two people in that lane against him. 2v1 against Udyr will make him tower hug, regardless of his damage bubble. He can't get fed or farm. Making him useless. Udyr HAS to get fed AND farm in order to be useful.

2. /surrender -- Seriously. If you only have one character on your entire team that is a good solo character, then you're ****ed.
highly disagree on the "has to be fed" part. malady, sheen and zerker greaves and he seems starts to be an annoying pain in the arse. i dare to say that even i can "farm" this overwhelming item set in about every game against anyone. oh, and he has turtle...


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Razr

Senior Member

01-18-2010

Edit: yeah, the guy above me sums it up quite well what he has to do to rape face.

Short answer: you don't if the Udyr is competent.

Long answer: Udyrs generally level up bear and turtle at the same time, it gives survivability while soloing mid. The absolute best time to run one out of mana would be below level 5, when both stances cost ~65(?) mana to shift. If you're lucky and they've burned their summoner spells for whatever reason you might be able to get a chance to catch him off guard with a gank and a couple exhausts and an ignite or two.

The other issue here is determining whether or not a Udyr is competent and won't fall for your ****. Udyr has to close the gap to stun you and get in any damage; abuse that because they'll go into bear and for a few seconds they can't shield. If you can stun them and get a gank off with another stunner/disable (Morgana comes to mind), then you definitely have a chance of scaring him off and forcing him to BP.

Oh, and any hard hitting ranged carry (Ashe, Trist) can really apply a lot of pressure to a Udyr, even if they do have defensive masteries. If they're good they will be harassing the instant turtle goes down, and keeping the Udyr off the creeps.

The thing that a lot of people don't remember though is that Udyr isn't Yi. He doesn't need to farm for a half hour to start raping faces off. He can get Zerker Greaves and a Malady/SoTD for the attack speed and start going to town with Bear, Turtle, and Tiger or Phoenix at level 8. What you need to watch out for is him disappearing for longer than 30 seconds. In those 30 seconds he can BP, go start on lizard, and then head top or bot for a gank. If you have wards, ward the rune mobs and watch for him. Catching him off guard (particularly as TF) can really shut him down hard, and any perma-slows (like Frost Arrow, the lizard buff, etc.) are a pain too seeing as his speed boost isn't for very long.

He's powerful, yes. But if you save some stuns for him in team fights I can assure you he will go down fast and hard.


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Adorno

Senior Member

01-18-2010

If you are ranged, use your basic ranged attack against him every chance you get. Make him hit turtle every time. Mana will run out quickly. Unless they are putting 5 points in turtle, in which case they aren't going to be able to do much to you, either. Annoyed by him standing and farming? Farm back. Basically, he has to make a trade-off, and if he chooses to be difficult to kill, he will also have difficulty killing you. Not much different than a ranged player who chooses to be evasive and farm.

One of the advantages of turtle stance is that your opponents don't necessarily know if you put a few points in it, or a ton. It makes a huge difference in terms of how spammable it is b/c of the mana cost, although the shield is generally just strong enough to absorb a hit or two at most.

And of course, you can always call for a gank. If you stun him, he's quite squishy.


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allmad

Junior Member

01-18-2010

There is a topic saying "how to counter udyr"
Ill use few words of it here, but its better to search in the forums if you still need help.
Udyr needs to get farmed, and his turtle shield is awesome for that purpose, but it only last 3 SECS. What you gotta do, is make him use turtle shield, dont attack him for 3 secs, when the shield is gone hit him, he will trigger the shield again and eventually run out of mana, you need to harass him early so he cant get his stuff.


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Odins Blood

Junior Member

01-18-2010

I too like the old Udyr - he was faster which allowed for better early ganks. Now, he has to choose between two playstyles:

1) Be a MANBEAR/PHEONIX/TIGER murderer later. I say later, because early, it isn't viable. He doesn't have the mana pool to stance dance and can easily be shut down (as his speed was nerfed). He can be annoying with zerker greaves, malady, sheen, but look at that combo. No survivability except lifesteal. It's not like he has tons of hit points. CC his bear butt and kill him. He goes down fast.
-Whenever this happens I harass him hard. If he wants to catch and kill you, he will have blown his mana. Laugh at him as he stans useless in his once stance because he has no way to regen his mana outside of a low level turtle.

2) Turtle/Bear wannabe MANBEAR/PHOENIX/TIGER. If he goes more than 3 points into Turtle (which is what it would take to be near invincible like you said) he is going to only be viable as an offtank/melee stunner later. He will be godly (as you say) early, but be gimped later.
-Whenever this happens, I ignore him also. I farm along side of him and it is pretty much a stale mate. Harass once and a while and then gank him with CC (like ever other character in this game).


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PatMcGroyne

Senior Member

01-18-2010

The way I like to beat Udyr is with Sivir I level up ricochet and then you are constantly pecking at him once you get BB use it as much as possible and just keep chipping away eventually they back off because they run our of mana. When they back off you farm hard get better items and a higher level then you can harass him a lot more and when he backs off you call in a gank. With sivir's ulti you can gank anything extremely easily combined with stark's fervor.


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Ernesto Guevara

Junior Member

01-18-2010

Thanks everyone. I think this is the first thread I've posted here; I'm surprised at the lack of hard trolling.

Pretty sure the one I ran into maxxed turtle, and I think he had a mix of hp regen and absolute hp runes, as both seemed somewhat unnatural. I didn't know his turtle bubble lasts 3 seconds; I thought it was longer. That misunderstanding definitely led to me wasting a ton of mana blasting through it.

I was offended by the idea of allowing a melee to farm in my presence, but I did miss a bunch of early farming myself by focusing on him instead of his minions. I guess when I run into tanky udyr mid again I won't obsess over him killing creeps (same as against ashe/trist/sivir) and see how it goes.


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haaaaaaaalp

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Senior Member

01-18-2010

You should just give your carry the solo lane against uder and let him farm. Udyr is a ***** to harass but someone like twitch can just take the lane and farm until lategame. Lategame, twitch can out dps udyr if he is positioned correctly (although others carries might have problems).


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bobthegood

Senior Member

01-18-2010

Turtle heavy Udyrs can't do much against you. After he turtles, count to 3 and then harass him. While his shield is up, just last hit. Honestly, lanes against solo turtle Udyr are boring because it turns into a farm fest. If you are playing a better carry (which would be almost anyone if he goes early max turtle) then your farming will mean more than his farming.

Also, turtle Udry likes to autoattack, which pushes the creeps closer to your tower, making you safer from gank attempts and it easier to gank him.


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DonkeyBalls

Senior Member

01-18-2010

you guys way exagerate udyr's abilities.


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