So now that i got banned

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sqwishy

Member

01-21-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seiba View Post
People that are excessively obscene negatively impact the experiences of the 9 other players in the game. I think it's perfectly justifiable if he was way out of bounds.
Omg why don't you understand this. It's not that complicated. Why do you think that having negative implications immediately makes a particular behavior unjust? That kind of thinking is simply not how things work. All sorts of things have negative a impact that are within the "bounds". What usually is accepted is what is common. That's why it's common. If it's the norm, there generally isn't a negative reaction to the behavior. Otherwise, it wouldn't be a norm. When people decide to inflict "social justice" on other players who are following the norm, they are just trying to make themselves look cool.


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iXeta

Junior Member

01-21-2010

Well, I have to admit, banning someone for foul language isn't very professional. Especially when Riot programmed in a chat filter. If you or any staff member has a problem with foul language, turn on the chat filter. If Riot has a problem with foul language and cyber bullies (as much as I hate them myself) its best to make it publicly known that foul language is not allowed. In my mind, I automatically assume that because LoL has a chat filter, if I turn off my chat filter, I can use the kind of language blocked by it.

On the other hand, Pendragon is a very respectable person. I had an isssue that I was giving him hell for, and even though it ended up not being his problem, he was still very calm and cool even through the hell I was giving him. Although I somewhat agree with the fact that this kid shouldn't have been banned, he obviously seems a little dull in the head.


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doughnut

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Senior Member

01-21-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by sqwishy View Post
Omg why don't you understand this. It's not that complicated. Why do you think that having negative implications immediately makes a particular behavior unjust? That kind of thinking is simply not how things work. All sorts of things have negative a impact that are within the "bounds". What usually is accepted is what is common. That's why it's common. If it's the norm, there generally isn't a negative reaction to the behavior. Otherwise, it wouldn't be a norm. When people decide to inflict "social justice" on other players who are following the norm, they are just trying to make themselves look cool.
That shouldn't be the norm. That is the kind of attitude that turned a lot of people off to DotA. DotA was an extremely fun W3 mod that a lot of casual players couldn't get into because the community was so abysmal. Most people are extremely annoyed by **** talking. It's flat out stupid.

I completely agree that Sylvio deserved to have a temporary ban. While you're at it, do us all a favor and permanently ban 1UP; that guy is a total ******bag.


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sqwishy

Member

01-21-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by doughnut View Post
That shouldn't be the norm.
Says you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by doughnut View Post
Most people are extremely annoyed by **** talking. It's flat out stupid.
Most people are annoyed by noobs screwing up their game. It's flat out stupid.

Quote:
Originally Posted by doughnut View Post
I completely agree that Sylvio deserved to have a temporary ban. While you're at it, do us all a favor and permanently ban 1UP; that guy is a total ******bag.
So can we ban noobs too? You know, since you've decided we that annoying people is bannable behavior.


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Polygon

Member

01-21-2010

There is trashtalk... and then there is abusive trashtalk.

Taunting your enemies by calling them noobs or losers or pointing out that you rule this or that lane is all ok.

Going into the fine words that are banned on this forum is too far. Especially if you keep doing it, again and again and again, OH AND WITH CAPS thrown in too. I hate that, and if I had the ban button, I'd push it too.

I'm fairly confident that Pendragon did not misuse his authority in this case. I'll remain so until chatlogs are provided, and showing only mild game talk.

I do not think its ok that racial or sexual slurs are "the norm" for trash talking. The vast silent majority does not find it amusing. How do I know that? - Because the norm gravitates toward the middle, and most people do not trashtalk excessively.


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sqwishy

Member

01-21-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Polygon View Post
Going into the fine words that are banned on this forum is too far. Especially if you keep doing it, again and again and again, OH AND WITH CAPS thrown in too. I hate that, and if I had the ban button, I'd push it too.
So what you're saying is that those who use language which you hate should be banned. So really you're not introducing any new thoughts to the discussion. You're just producing noise. Congrats, you can spam!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Polygon View Post
I'm fairly confident that Pendragon did not misuse his authority in this case. I'll remain so until chatlogs are provided, and showing only mild game talk.
Guilty till proven innocent! That's the spirit! Given that you have no motive or evidence to support your theory that he was being excessive in his foul language you will assume that your theory is correct.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Polygon View Post
I do not think its ok that racial or sexual slurs are "the norm" for trash talking. The vast silent majority does not find it amusing. How do I know that? - Because the norm gravitates toward the middle, and most people do not trashtalk excessively.
Yeah but really you and doughnut are just saying, "I don't like it when the bad men call me names because it causes me to not enjoy the game". So you believe that annoying things, IE. "abusive trash talking", are not ok and that behavior is bannable. And apparently a vast and silent majority support you and, because everyone knows that mob rule is the most perfect and supreme form of government, it is, therefore, not "OK" to trash talk effectively/abusively.


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Maugrim Faustus

Senior Member

01-21-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by sqwishy View Post
Yeah but really you and doughnut are just saying, "I don't like it when the bad men call me names because it causes me to not enjoy the game". So you believe that annoying things, IE. "abusive trash talking", are not ok and that behavior is bannable. And apparently a vast and silent majority support you and, because everyone knows that mob rule is the most perfect and supreme form of government, it is, therefore, not "OK" to trash talk effectively/abusively.
Hey simmer down now.

There's a difference between being new to a game and ****ing up and just being a ******bag. Yes, noobs are annoying and there are games lost because of a single feeder. Teach them to be better, and they won't **** up as much (if they don't improve, they'll probably stop playing soon enough; sooner or later, everyone falls into the niche they enjoy).

On the other hand, talking **** constantly, especially to, as Adonis says, "the 1 guy who has unchecked authority to ban anyone at will" is even dumber.

Look, being a ******bag ruins the game for more people than being new does. Most people who are annoyed by this won't say anything about it because then the trash talking turns on them. They don't want it around at all, but tell people to shut up never seems to have the effect you want.

The implication I'm getting from some people in this thread is that it's perfectly ok to troll constantly in the game. Since one person in particular had the (mis)fortune of doing this to someone who could do something about it, why the **** are you complaining about it? Here's a better solution than to accuse someone of cheating and assert that "it's totally normal to be a ****, everyone loves it" - Stop being a troll. Stop acting like a ******. Play the game and find another way to exercise your ego.

Hey, sylvio, are you trying to say that nobody protects you when you play when you're mildly squishy? He had no HP items on him - in a team fight, who doesn't try to save their buddies?

For that matter, who says the rule of game development is that the designers have to be the best at it? Are the people at Activision the best as Guitar Hero? Get off your own **** high horse.


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doughnut

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Senior Member

01-21-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by sqwishy View Post
Why do you think that having negative implications immediately makes a particular behavior unjust?
As far as I know, it was one of Riot's goals to improve on the poor community surrounding DotA. I'm not saying that trash talking doesn't have a place in the game, I'm just saying that people - probably Sqwishy included - take it to a point where you are losing the game because of the negative attitude they bring to the team. You donít need to tear someone down because they are inexperienced.

eSports athletes never learned sportsmanship because they are video game nerds! lol


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sqwishy

Member

01-21-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maugrim Faustus View Post
Teach them to be better, and they won't **** up as much (if they don't improve, they'll probably stop playing soon enough; sooner or later, everyone falls into the niche they enjoy).
I've tried to be helpful. I give warnings before an incoming gank and/or gameplay tips which would improve survivability and overall enjoyment. They ignore it. Also, regardless of how many stop playing, new ones keep appearing because I keep bumping into them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maugrim Faustus View Post
On the other hand, talking **** constantly, especially to, as Adonis says, "the 1 guy who has unchecked authority to ban anyone at will" is even dumber.
Wait, I don't see how that makes his decision to ban a good and just decision...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maugrim Faustus View Post
Look, being a ******bag ruins the game for more people than being new does.
[Citation needed] Also, If someone does something stupid and people complain at them for it, I see that as acceptable. You've just done something to hurt your team, and they hurt you back. It's a consequence. A negative intensive. It's a way that people learn. If you claim that the verbal abuse is significantly more negative than the newbies lameness then I suppose whoever is being insulted should grow a pair. Seriously, if they did something wrong and they are getting **** for it they shouldn't be complaining that they are facing consequences.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maugrim Faustus View Post
The implication I'm getting from some people in this thread is that it's perfectly ok to troll constantly in the game.
If that is the case you should probably go look up the definition of "troll" and then come back.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maugrim Faustus View Post
Since one person in particular had the (mis)fortune of doing this to someone who could do something about it, why the **** are you complaining about it?
Well because it appears that the mod was abusing his power. He was acting irrational and butthurt and decided that he should get back on the offending player by banning him. I think that a ban was an immature reaction on the part of the mod.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maugrim Faustus View Post
"it's totally normal to be a ****, everyone loves it"; - Stop being a troll. Stop acting like a ******. Play the game and find another way to exercise your ego.
I didn't say everyone loves it. That's almost exactly the opposite of what I said. I just said that everyone does it, it's sort of the social norm and people that can't deal with it shouldn't react by banning a limited selection individuals (or just one in this instance).


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Maugrim Faustus

Senior Member

01-21-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by sqwishy View Post
I've tried to be helpful. I give warnings before an incoming gank and/or gameplay tips which would improve survivability and overall enjoyment. They ignore it. Also, regardless of how many stop playing, new ones keep appearing because I keep bumping into them.
Of course new ones keep appearing. Do you think Riot made a game so just a few people could enjoy it? Part of the learning curve is starting at the bottom. Everybody is new at some point and some take to the game quicker than others will. the fact that they ignore it sucks, but there's a gray area between 'stop feeding them, that's stupid' and 'you're a ****ing idiot'. Things that lean towards the latter serve the same purpose as the former, except you're being a ****** about it.


Quote:
Wait, I don't see how that makes his decision to ban a good and just decision...
Who says it needs to be a good and just decision? The Moderating Team sees fit to give Pendragon the power to do this and i have doubts that it's because he's prone to abuse of power. One ban doesn't constitute abuse of power.

As a secondary point, having a userbase of ******bags ruins the game for everyone, so banning one because he's clearly acting like a ****, then posts a butthurt thread about it crying 'cheating' and 'abuse of power' and hiding behind 'well it couldn't possibly be Pendragon' is stupid. Surprisingly enough, there are consequences for actions.

Quote:
[Citation needed] Also, If someone does something stupid and people complain at them for it, I see that as acceptable. You've just done something to hurt your team, and they hurt you back. It's a consequence. A negative intensive. It's a way that people learn. If you claim that the verbal abuse is significantly more negative than the newbies lameness then I suppose whoever is being insulted should grow a pair. Seriously, if they did something wrong and they are getting **** for it they shouldn't be complaining that they are facing consequences.
To reiterate my point - there's a line between complaining about it and instructing them on the proper way to do it and being a ****. People respond to different learning cues, and negative intensives breed hostility. You can achieve the same thing without the hostility, without acting out because you're mad about a single game that bears little impact on your larger score. Now, you're defense of acting like a **** is 'grow a pair' and that 'it's a learning mechanism'. I've pointed out the faults in the latter, and for the former: we all know that that cry is another excuse to rage on people to make yourself feel better/superior. Yes, there is such a thing as being too senstive to criticism, and I'm not defending every idiot with that. The question is: Is it necessary? **** no. The consequences of people doing ****ty things is ****ty things happening to them. Generally speaking, it's a loss for the profile. As we've seen, it could be a ban. You will never get someone to do what you want by acting like a raging **** towards them. All you do is make them hostile towards you, which encourages them to continue whatever ******ed things they're doing. Growing a pair also includes - patience for people who don't know how to play the game properly, recognizing that you're acting like a ****** and stopping and taking your losses as they come and finding a better way of dealing with the situation.


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If that is the case you should probably go look up the definition of "troll" and then come back.
It's naive to believe that people don't deliberately aggravate others for their own enjoyment. You can hide it behind 'learning mechanisms', but how often do you see results from your negative intensives? How often do people continue the aggravation for their own amusement? This is a troll, my friend.

Quote:
Well because it appears that the mod was abusing his power. He was acting irrational and butthurt and decided that he should get back on the offending player by banning him. I think that a ban was an immature reaction on the part of the mod.
I have my doubts. People don't get moderating positions by being immature, and I'm sure that this one ban of someone who clearly sounds like a ****head doesn't negatively impact the game or the reputation of the mod involved. I've already said that sylvio is acting butthurt by posting a poorly written thread complaining of perceived injustice. Judging the situation (admittedly imperfectly), he is acting far more butthurt than the mod was, for reasons i've already explained. The reaction wasn't immature, it was justified. You mouth off to authority and there are consequences.

It is, as they say, a negative intensive.


Quote:
I didn't say everyone loves it. That's almost exactly the opposite of what I said. I just said that everyone does it, it's sort of the social norm and people that can't deal with it shouldn't react by banning a limited selection individuals (or just one in this instance).
The fact that it's a social norm is no defense. At one point, racism was a social norm. At one point, slavery was the social norm. It's not a matter of who can deal with it and who can't. Most people have thick enough skin to understand when people complain of them acting stupid. The truly butthurt are those who deliberately Alt+F4 out of a game, or refuse to play because they they see others performing poorly. You can't win every game, but you can find a group of people that you play well with, then play with them. If you're playing solo, it's luck of the draw for your team, and you have to accept that that's the case.